Anyone Upgrading to V3

R

Richtig

Guest
Just a thought guys - and some would say purely selfish. But this latest Battlefront nonsense of patching is causing issues across all Head2Head games and campaigns, so if you are upgrading and can create a dual system - I am sure there are players on here who would appreciate your efforts.

And a big thanks to all those 'old hands' who already do this as a matter of course.

And just in case anyone doesn't quite get it. We have community members who can't upgrade (Mac users) and we have those who have chosen not to - both I am sure would prefer to be included in future games not excluded.

Thank you
 
I upgraded today but I have no CMBN games running atm :)
 
Always got a second old version install at hand. So ready for all.
 
Dual install is easy to manage with shortcuts and CM Helper.
 
Dual install is easy to manage with shortcuts and CM Helper.

For some that may be so, but for this dinosaur...not so much. Sure puts a crimp in my desire to play CM, never mind designing scenarios.
 
I have to admit I upgraded, I do feel it is BS for battlefront to do this and said so but was promptly reprimanded for my temporary insanity.

I was reminded that the game gods were doing us the favor by allowing the the purchase of said upgrade/patch.

I really think the individual battle packs are enough for the amount, but to pay for the patch not so much. Oh wait... it's not a patch
 
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@Grubwurm welcome to the world of Battlefront. I love companies that think insulting customers is a good way forward. Your comments are spot on.

Now we have to stop this conversation or the FanBoy Police will appear...
 
- The Fanboi PD at the scene. -
Why can’t you guys grasp that this is not a patch? It takes substantial work to upgrade the different games to include all new features. This work has to be paid for. I know you want stuff for free, so do I, but the world just don’t work that way.
Have a look at CMSF, CMA and CMBN<CMBB<CMAK .. back then they didn’t port upgrades backwards, didn’t cost a thing but the games suffered for it. However you can still make a choice and don’t upgrade if you don’t want to. Your whining won’t hold the rest of us back though.
 
Why can’t you guys grasp that this is not a patch?

Because some of the things included in the upgrade should have been patch items, and indeed are standard patch items across the industry. Let's look at the v3.0 features list: http://www.battlefront.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=blogcategory&id=273&Itemid=459

"Improved shaders" - This obviously fixes problems with the shadows and shaders that have been a hallmark of CMx2 games since day 1. These problems are on BFC to fix, since they weren't working properly, yet we have to pay for the fix now.

"More realistic/varied RoF of automatic weapons." - This implies that there were problems with how machine guns were being handled. The onus is on BFC to fix the problems in their software, yet we have to pay for the fix now.

"Improved load time for scenarios, especially larger ones with complex terrain" - BFC obviously fixed problems in their software that contributed to bad performance. The onus is on BFC to fix the problems, yet we have to pay for the fix now.

"Improved responsiveness of 2D editing, especially for large maps" - See above.

"Improved load time for 3D Preview, especially large maps" - See above.

As you can see, it's not just an upgrade we're paying for, but also patch items that BFC has stated "would always be free." The precedent for rolling patch fixes into the upgrades was set when v2.0 came out. They fixed a big issue with the MGs, and implied that a 1.12 patch for CMBN would fix it for those who were still running the 1.0 version of the game. As you know, it never came. We can expect more and more patch items to be rolled into upgrades, as has already happened.

It takes substantial work to upgrade the different games to include all new features.

Except, as we have since found out, upgrades don't include all new features; see tank riders. BFC's explanation that it would take "too much time" also doesn't make sense when compared with what they did for 2.0. They totally re-textured the US infantry units and added normal maps for nearly every single item in the game. You can bet the farm that it took a lot of time to do that. Sure, they were also able to use art assets from CMFI for 2.0, but they would also have been able to use tank riding assets already done in RT for BN. I suspect the real reason they didn't add tank riders to 3.0 was because they couldn't farm it out to their volunteer laborers to do it for free, like they were probably able to do with the texture work in 2.0.

This work has to be paid for. I know you want stuff for free, so do I, but the world just don’t work that way.

I haven't seen anyone here say that 3.0 should have been offered for free. However, when you find parts of it are patch fixes and not features worth paying for from other CMx2 titles, it makes one question why he or she should pay for an upgrade when, by BFC's own standard, certain items in the upgrade are clearly fixes.

Have a look at CMSF, CMA and CMBN<CMBB<CMAK .. back then they didn’t port upgrades backwards, didn’t cost a thing but the games suffered for it. However you can still make a choice and don’t upgrade if you don’t want to. Your whining won’t hold the rest of us back though.

CMSF is still quite playable and enjoyable today without any of the upgrades. The simple fact is BFC took it upon themselves to keep all of their games updated at the same level. No one lobbied for this or asked for it as far as I am aware. However, it's becoming clearer and clearer BFC really didn't think things completely through with the upgrade system. It's starting to become a big mess, really.

I've purposely tried to stay out of the majority of these arguments since it's really not that important in the big scheme of things. It's a video game. It's really down to whether or not each individual finds value in spending the money for the upgrade. If you find value in it, great! Other people have found the value not to be there, and that is perfectly OK too. Both sides are free to voice their opinions on the matter. As one who has become increasingly dissatisfied with the CM franchise to the point of not buying anymore titles, I certainly won't bash or belittle those who continue to enjoy the series and purchase whatever BFC releases. More power to them, and I'll continue to enjoy reading/watching the AARs they post here. However, it does get tiring when those of us who have problems with BFC's trajectory are consistently being told we're freeloaders, whiners, luddites, etc. when there are valid concerns that we have.

Edited for teh grammerz.
 
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@Rambler Every point well put and considered - just what we are all thinking and saying and even allows for the notion that some may disagree. Unlike the typical BF response. Well said.
 
And how much did we pay for these upgrades? Opps. Sorry. These were patches??

icon1.gif


Version 1.11 Feature List
http://www.battlefront.com/community/showthread.php?t=85312

Version 1.21 Feature List
http://www.battlefront.com/community/showthread.php?t=87942

Version 1.30 Feature List
http://www.battlefront.com/community/showthread.php?t=93535

Edited for Fizou's convenience





 
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Because some of the things included in the upgrade should have been patch items, and indeed are standard patch items across the industry. Let's look at the v3.0 features list: http://www.battlefront.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=blogcategory&id=273&Itemid=459

Now reading this post is something i can agree with. Concerns, complaints in a civiliced manner.

"STUFF"

As you can see, it's not just an upgrade we're paying for, but also patch items that BFC has stated "would always be free." The precedent for rolling patch fixes into the upgrades was set when v2.0 came out. They fixed a big issue with the MGs, and implied that a 1.12 patch for CMBN would fix it for those who were still running the 1.0 version of the game. As you know, it never came. We can expect more and more patch items to be rolled into upgrades, as has already happened.

I will also be concerned if this is the case. But are you sure these patch items will not be included in a upcoming patch? MG code from 2.0 was never supposed to be ported back to 1.0 as I understood it. It can be argued that it should but I never got the impression that it was BFs intention to do so.
A upgrade also containing patch items only mean that you get them right now if you buy the upgrade, and later if you wait for the older versions patch.

Except, as we have since found out, upgrades don't include all new features; see tank riders. BFC's explanation that it would take "too much time" also doesn't make sense when compared with what they did for 2.0. They totally re-textured the US infantry units and added normal maps for nearly every single item in the game. You can bet the farm that it took a lot of time to do that. Sure, they were also able to use art assets from CMFI for 2.0, but they would also have been able to use tank riding assets already done in RT for BN. I suspect the real reason they didn't add tank riders to 3.0 was because they couldn't farm it out to their volunteer laborers to do it for free, like they were probably able to do with the texture work in 2.0.

I wont argue with you about the time what takes as Im sure you know more about it than me. But just because we got A with 2.0 doesnt mean that will happen for 3.0. If they discover that the 10$ price for the work of 2.0 upgrade is to high they cant continue with a model that is not sustainable. They should however have voiced this before the release so that people understand why.

I haven't seen anyone here say that 3.0 should have been offered for free. However, when you find parts of it are patch fixes and not features worth paying for from other CMx2 titles, it makes one question why he or she should pay for an upgrade when, by BFC's own standard, certain items in the upgrade are clearly fixes.

I have seen plenty of people that argue that the upgrade is 100% patch material. Thats what I react on. The things you point out, I agree thay are patch items. If BF truly moves in the direction of only supporting what they are payed for then that is indeed a bad way to go. But I believe we will see another 2.0 patch to bring it up to speed even if it will take some time.

CMSF is still quite playable and enjoyable today without any of the upgrades. The simple fact is BFC took it upon themselves to keep all of their games updated at the same level. No one lobbied for this or asked for it as far as I am aware. However, it's becoming clearer and clearer BFC really didn't think things completely through with the upgrade system. It's starting to become a big mess, really.

Well, I agree and disagree. CMSF is still enjoyable but I think it would be so much better at 3.0 or even 2.0. Just the MG change is such a game changer. People have been looking for back porting since CMBB > CMBO days. I think its a great way to go but as you say Im sure they have had problmes to nail down the strategy to perfection with several titels going on at the same time with several versions to support. With the limited crew its a mountain of work. I hope they will be able to expand to do more faster.


I've purposely tried to stay out of the majority of these arguments since it's really not that important in the big scheme of things. It's a video game. It's really down to whether or not each individual finds value in spending the money for the upgrade. If you find value in it, great! Other people have found the value not to be there, and that is perfectly OK too. Both sides are free to voice their opinions on the matter. As one who has become increasingly dissatisfied with the CM franchise to the point of not buying anymore titles, I certainly won't bash or belittle those who continue to enjoy the series and purchase whatever BFC releases. More power to them, and I'll continue to enjoy reading/watching the AARs they post here. However, it does get tiring when those of us who have problems with BFC's trajectory are consistently being told we're freeloaders, whiners, luddites, etc. when there are valid concerns that we have.

Well right back at you, but the opposit I guess. I have no problem with people raising their concerns as long as they are not rude. If they are I'll share my POW. BF is not a company of bad poeple.
 
And how much did we pay for these upgrades? Opps. Sorry. These were patches??

"So much stuff"

Funny indeed..

Please post a link next time, you have already layed out the full list before and it just becomes hard to read the forum.

First off, that was all the patches form CMSF. A game that on release was buggy to say the least. Part of the reason why the list is so long compared with BN or FI where the engine is more mature. The CMx2 ww2 games also have several free patches as well as pay for modules. The differance is that when a new base game is released with major engine improvements they are packported for a fee, a low fee at that, called a upgrade. This never happened for CMSF you see, its still the old pre CMBN 1.0 code. There is a mayor difference in the amount of work doing something once or doing it three times or even more. Yes, someone has to be payed to do this. We will continue to see free patches and pay for modules, base games and upgrades.

I would pay 40$ (4 upgrades) to have CMSF to the current engine standard if that was an option without hesitation. Id rather use the game than have it become obsolete.

PM me and I will buy you the 3.0 patches... I mean upgrades!


[EDIT]: Sorry for my english
 
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Apologies to Fizou and anyone else that I caused an inconvenience to by posted such a lengthy quote. In Fizou's defense my TapaTalk was crawling on my Galaxy when I was trying to get to the bottom of the thread.

I apologize for derailing your thread @Richtig but I will not get called out without a response.

Fizou - I understand and appreciate your loyalty and connection with BattleFront. But at the same time, I loathe reading your posts pertaining to this issue (nothing personal). I had to check the address bar multiple times in order to ensure myself that I somehow did not accidentally migrate myself over to that 'other' forum. I thought I put up a pretty good post #19 here: http://www.thefewgoodmen.com/thefgm...bn-features-copied-from-chrisnd-twitch.20564/ explaining how this bitching or whining thing that you are so upset about works. You have already claimed several times in this and another thread that a select few of us keep moaning and groaning about not receiving a "FREE" upgrade. Not sure where you are getting that from as I read through the forums multiple times and have not seen one post asking for that. I have seen posts, including my own, that state it was a little light on content but in no way did I take that to mean we want something for FREE. Must be a language thingy? Due to this, I wholly understand your reactions to misinterpreting or misunderstanding what has been posted. I mean telling people that they have little understanding of things or they need to "grasp" the concept or offering to buy them the upgrade (insinuating that they are too cheap) could rub them the wrong way. I personally am good and can easily take a jab or two with no problem. We pay for the game and have the right to discuss what we pay for. You also pay for the game and have the right to discuss. I think we can keep it reasonable on the "bitching and moaning" if you can keep it reasonable on the Pro-BF defense. So all is good. Keep it light.
 
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