Future Sunday direction

[DoubleD]

Our Sunday numbers have started growing and I'd like to get everyones thoughts on how we should proceed. With more people come bigger challanges in mission scripting and game play. From a mission mechanic perspective there tends to be two paths; Hollywood, rush and bang bang missions. This brings lots of action, is best supported with a simple medic script, allowance for frequent respawns close by, and supports a more individualistic game play. The other path being more Combat Mission, tactical combat, fire and movement, lending towards a more initiative, communication, disciplined team play style.

Scripting the weekly missions does take quite a lot of my time. I do this because I enjoy the Sunday ops and developing a story. I don't want to spend that time writing missions which aren't what the majority of the group like to play.

Additonally, I think that any new member who wishes to join the ArmA sessions must be a member of FGM before joining. Out of respect to Bootie, and all of the effort both he and Ithikial put into the club I think this is fair. This is afterall a Combat Mission community.

So with all that stuff said, I need your feedback on future mission direction :- please post, silence is acceptance.

 

[Ithikial]

I'd be heading down the lines of tactical combat in a relaxed humorous environment. (Read: Not doing stinking paperwork for Human Resources like some ARMA groups ). THis is part of the reason rotating team leads is important. We don't want an entrenched command structure that become overbearing. As for the Hollywood option... it's fun to do some outrageous shenanigans from time to time but we don't play ARMA as an alternative for CoD.

Last time we tried to 'go large' we did it a little too quick and it turned into a failure so I'm wary of the history. But if ARMA Sunday Sessions turns into one of the ways the FGM community meets up for some live chats and a few laughs it gets a big tick in my book. This simply isn't possible in Combat Mission or other tactical wargames. If we can pull a few more Combat Mission guys into the ARMA scene, all the better. The release of Black Sea is a prime opportunity for this as I've flagged with some you before.

Admin
Some ground rules which makes it a bit more manageable:
- Agreed have to be an active member on the forums. (Though I guess not a Combat Mission player). We want to know who you are.
- Have fun but keep things moving to the best of your ability. ie. Ensure everything is ready on your end before Sunday night/day. Delay for you = delays for all.
- Limit the mod changing as much as possible. I think we've already improved in this area but we can probably streamline it a bit more once other mod packages in development near completion. I'm watching the ARMA2 Port Mod Project with interest. Makes it hell of a lot easier on the new guys.
- Think of it as 'The Nelson Test' - Could @Nelson1812 get up and running easy enough to join in the ARMA fun? Half of our membership aren't tech guru's, we need to keep this in mind. We need you back buddy.
- Possibly time 'FNG Sunday Sessions' directly after Steam Sales and promote members to pick up a a copy as these sales come about.

Mission
- ALIVE does seem to be a hit and miss affair but should stay. I like the randomness immensely but as we've seen can also lead to some 'walks in the park.'
- Would be nice to easily recognize who is the enemy and who isn't.
- We do a lot of infantry fighting. If we can guarantee a larger group most Sunday nights would be good to mix it up a little with some armour/helo support... and that means on both sides.
- Less commando raids, more being stuck in a larger battle with an objective to complete. (With ALIVE help).
- The AGM medical system is brutal. The death and teleport requirements rather than giving your buddies a chance to get to you isn't the best and probably keeps DoubleD busy with admin tasks rather than having fun as part of the mission proper. Would be great if we can rock with a company but as at most an expanded squad????
- Friendly VIP's... got to love the AI.

Two cents plus sales tax.

 

[Rambler]

My vote goes to the tactical combat/teamwork style of mission in a relaxed environment. We all play CM. Part of the fun in playing Arma, for me at least, is the ability to come up with a tactical plan, like in CM, and then be able to execute it in real time with fellow FGMers. That's something you can't do in CM. At all.

I think it's great that we've been slowly adding to our numbers. It shows that people are enjoying our play environment. However, as we do grow there will inevitably be some growing pains we'll have to work through. It's a good problem to have, in my book! So, in the spirit of helping us work through some of the pains, here are some of my thoughts:

Community:
+∞ to having members of the Arma 3 team also be FGM members. I think anyone who joins us should follow the site rules already laid out by Bootie; post an intro and be an active member in the FGM community. Can't meet those reqs, you don't play. Like Ithikial said, we need to know who you are, and if the person doesn't mesh well with the team after one or two outings then they should get the boot. The only time I really actually play Arma is on Sundays, and I don't want asshats ruining the experience.

Housekeeping:
Yeah, agree that everyone should make sure their platform is squared up as much as possible prior to the start of the Sunday session. Totally understand there may be technical difficulties to work through at the start of a mission, but the more we can keep these to a minimum the better for everyone .

Command:
I think we should consider implementing an "every other" type rule, meaning if someone commands one Sunday then they're ineligible to command the next Sunday. The Sunday after that they would be eligible to command again. It should spread around the squad leader position a little more than it has been.

One thing that would help speed up the process of getting the mission started on Sundays is if the squad leader for the week got a screen cap of the mission map with objectives a day prior to the session for planning purposes. Sure, it usually doesn't take a whole lot of time to come up with a plan, but the time spent doing that in game the day of could be better spent going straight into a briefing and heading out to pull triggers. It would require a small time commitment on the SL's behalf to do that, though.

Mission Making:
Many moons ago, you set up a R&D thread asking for volunteers to help with mission making. As we grow, I think this will become more important so that all of the workload doesn't fall on one person. Perhaps now is a good time to get this off the ground.

Missions:
In the future, I'd also like to see more combined arms incorporated into the campaigns. Perhaps some armor only (all of us in tanks would be pretty cool) missions and missions with player controlled fixed wing and rotary CAS thrown into the mix. Kind of like the OFP campaign. Variety is the spice of life .

Mods:
I like a lot of the things in AGM, but the instant death and respawning back at the very beginning is somewhat a fun killer, especially on huge maps like N'ziwasogo. It also adds to your workload during the mission since you have to beam us back to the action. After looking through the AGM wiki, instant death can be turned off in the medical module:

1. Prevent instant death? (Boolean)
   Prevent instant death and always put players in unconscious state instead.
   Default value: No
2. Prevent death while unconscious? (Boolean)
   Make unconscious units invulnerable.
   Default value: No

We could turn off the death aspects to keep everyone in the action as much as possible. Yeah, not as realistic, but ending up 5 clicks away from everyone else after you get tagged is about as fun as watching paint dry.

I think you've done a good job at keeping the mod set as streamlined as possible for newcomers. RHS and/or CUP should make things even more simple. I also second Ithikial's idea on an FNG Sunday to get other FGM members to jump into Arma.

 

[Bootie]

Glad to see this is evolving..... personally with moving house and varied shift work means I'm not available every Sunday. With the addition of a man cave in my new house means I can join up more readily on Sundays (if I'm not working) as I have somewhere to disappear to and not have a 3 year old tugging at my leg in an effort to get me to raid the cookie jar for her. Saying that though I have struggled with the new map (no markers or anything) and the new radio system. The last time I played it really wasnt much fun... I ran along beside Ithikial like his deaf/mute friend. That did put me off as I wasnt involved in any of the decision making/discussing which makes a tactical game... well tactical. If we cant get me fixed into that I would like to see us return to the in game system which would be easier for me and new comers or the other option is I sit the sessions out and let you guys crack on.

All in all DoubleD has been doing a great job and one which we all owe him a debt of gratitude for. Im sure I can rustle up a little ribbon to show our appreciation once I get the new FGM HQ up and running.

 

[Vartuoosi]

- ALIVE does seem to be a hit and miss affair but should stay. I like the randomness immensely but as we've seen can also lead to some 'walks in the park.'

ALIVE should definitely stay. Of course I don't mean every mission should include it (whatever DD or possible future mission-makers feel like, think the mission needs). It's great for some unpredictability, but that also means we'll be at the mercy of Arma gods.
Last Sunday everyone was constantly declaring that things were about to go tits up but then absolutely nothing happened, at all.
And on the other end of the spectrum we have intense mission like this, where by the end we were ruthlessly hunted by APC's and Iranian spec-ops. (Never forget the sacrifice that had to be make during that mission.)

- We do a lot of infantry fighting. If we can guarantee a larger group most Sunday nights would be good to mix it up a little with some armour/helo support... and that means on both sides.

- Less commando raids

That would be nice, but we are still a small group so it might be difficult to do.

I like a lot of the things in AGM, but the instant death and respawning back at the very beginning is somewhat a fun killer, especially on huge maps like N'ziwasogo. It also adds to your workload during the mission since you have to beam us back to the action. After looking through the AGM wiki, instant death can be turned off in the medical module:

1. Prevent instant death? (Boolean)
   Prevent instant death and always put players in unconscious state instead.
   Default value: No
2. Prevent death while unconscious? (Boolean)
   Make unconscious units invulnerable.
   Default value: No

We could turn off the death aspects to keep everyone in the action as much as possible. Yeah, not as realistic, but ending up 5 clicks away from everyone else after you get tagged is about as fun as watching paint dry.

We should test this.


Also it seems that most mod related problems are related to TFAR.
I mean people seem to be able to install it just fine and set the correct frequency etc. but for some reason they can't grasp the concept that now there is two push-to-talk buttons.
1. Button to talk locally (Whatever you set as your Teamspeak push-to-talk. This can also be voice activated if you've set your Teamspeak to do so.)
2. Button to talk on the radio (Capslock, cannot be voice activated, you have to press and hold capslock to transmit.)
Is that really so difficult? This baffles me greatly.

 

[Nathangun]

Some good thoughts there. I agree. FGM members only from now

 

[DoubleD]

A big thanks for so much quick feedback. I think it's an agreement on taking a tactical direction, however I completely agree with the points here; it needs to stay fun and not turn into a dictatorial environment. I also really like Ramblers idea on excluding people from leadership the following Sunday. This will mean more people need to take a turn at leading, going outside of their comfort zones, but I'm up for trying it.

A lot of feedback on AGM here. I know about the option to turn off instant death, it does work, and it was a conscious decision from me to leave it on. Why? It is setup this way in 3 Commando and when I first started playing I also found it annoying, Ithikial uses the perfect word, brutal. War is brutal, so how does one get the emotions, adrenaline etc. that accompany that brutality in a game? Over time what I found was that in order to avoid instant death one has to think. When moving, jogging vaguely accross open terrain leads to insta death. Instead movement requires practice and thought, move, scan, decide next move; move, scan, decide next move.... rinse and repeat. In combat situations one has to plan, suppressing, moving from cover to cover or flanking the enemy. The difference between cover and concealment also has real consequences. Once I learnt these skills it added a new dimension to the game play. It gave depth and realism because there is a consequence to lack of thought or lapses in concentration. As a leader it adds another dimension, stupid orders have a consequence for your men. In 3 Commando there is no insta porting, your on your own, its even more annoying. Very few games invoke the same feeling when breaching in fixed first person, it's a buzz not knowing what is coming; 'clear', wounded or death.... It's brutal. In hindsight our current map is a tough place to learn these skills; with little cover and lots of concealment for enemies. Personally I really like the insta death but I'm open to changing it.

I mentioned on Sunday that I was working on the next campaign. I'm pretty excited about it and it does incorporate a lot of what you guys are mentioning; big battles, AI support and leveraging Alive much more. It will incorporate RHS and I'm also playing with CUP. The mod is unstable at the moment and most of the factions don't work, but it shows real promise if it continues to be developed. Currently we are using Alive fairly lightly because I don't know how the server will stand up if I crank up the usage and I don't want to use our Sunday ops to stress test it and potentially crash half way through an op. I'll think about the best way to stress test.

For TFAR, I understand Bootie's point but once you've got it working and understand how to use it, the in-game comms just don't cut it. Also from a command perspective the in-game version can be very difficult because people talk over each other, there is no command net.

Next steps: I'd propose we step out of the current campaign map for some practice and team training. I can create a simple training map where we can spawn some missions using MCC and we can practice various manoeuvres, radio comms, and try and identify what type of game play style best suits FGM. It will be much easier if we do that conciously with your feedback and I can learn what mission designs and enemy weighting works for our evolving group. I can also setup the practice map so that people can insta jump themselves to the team. We can start to work on methods to mitigate insta death and decide if the preference is to turn it off. We can also practice using suppression, leveraging the TPWC mod. Vanillia ArmA doesn't support suppression, but with TPWC AI can be supressed, flanked or even broken.

Again, in the spirit of FGM, feedback on the above proposal please.

 

[Rambler]

@Bootie - What problem are you having? Post up your problem and we can probably help get you sorted.

Next steps: I'd propose we step out of the current campaign map for some practice and team training. I can create a simple training map where we can spawn some missions using MCC and we can practice various manoeuvres, radio comms, and try and identify what type of game play style best suits FGM. It will be much easier if we do that conciously with your feedback and I can learn what mission designs and enemy weighting works for our evolving group. I can also setup the practice map so that people can insta jump themselves to the team. We can start to work on methods to mitigate insta death and decide if the preference is to turn it off. We can also practice using suppression, leveraging the TPWC mod. Vanillia ArmA doesn't support suppression, but with TPWC AI can be supressed, flanked or even broken.

That sounds good to me.

 

[Mauser GDog]

Hi guys, I'd love to join you for mission sometime. While 12:30 GMT will be tough for me (EST) I'll get my mods sorted and hope for the best!