How Important is C2 and Communcation Between Units in Modern-Day CM2 titles (And CM2 in General)?

[beeftothetaco]

After playing a few hours of BS and watching Usually Hapless' excellent video on the topic of C2 and communication in CM2, I still don't understand why these mechanics are made out to be so important. Aside from the ability to call in fire/air support, differences in the time needed to call in said support and a morale boost (the value of which I'm unable quantify) granted to applicable units, I really don't understand the point of maintaining C2/lines of communication in CM, particularly in the modern-day titles. Sure, units that see the enemy can relay that information through the chain of command to units that can't see them, but how is that helpful? In CM you are an omnipresent commander that can see what all of your units see at any one given time. Does it allow units with lower visibility/worse optics (tanks, IFVs, infantry in concealment) to aquire and engage targets faster? Is the morale boost significant? From the uneducated player's point of view (me) the C2 and Communication mechanics seem to be more of a role-play novelty than a tangible factor that players need to carefully consider.

 

[dkchapuis]

Does it allow units with lower visibility/worse optics (tanks, IFVs, infantry in concealment) to aquire and engage targets faster?

Yes.

Especially in modern games, even a spotting advantage of a few seconds can make a big difference.

 

[Brille]

Maintaining C2 is mainly for morale and target acquisition in Combat mission.

The latter one might be not as important as in the ww2 games, because the units spot good on their own, at least for the US. But it helps the units regardless in finding enemy targets and be aware of them.

In some instances you may even see that the Tac ai react to a contact, that they still haven't seen. For example turning their turret in the targets general direction, popping smoke or withdraw.

Those effects you most likely will see better when playing on a higher skill level/difficult level and if you watch for details.

If you play with heavy electronic warfare you may also see some advantages in C2 as radios, GPS etc. are pretty much useless. It plays more like ww2 in regards of communication.

You might be the over viewing commander/God but just because you can see an enemy doesn't mean every unit can see him too.

As I've said morale is another big point why you should keep the chain of command.
If you play with veterans and crack troops they can stand their ground pretty good on their own, even when not in the comm line. But even they would perform better if they are.

There are enough threads and good videos regarding the factors in detail so I won't bother you with that.

The "basics" Videos of usually hapless on Youtube I can recommend for sure plus several other.

 

[Monty's Mighty Moustache]

It’s mostly been covered but here’s another useful video about morale and combat stress in the game that are both affected by C2. He has another about HQ modifiers that is worth checking out too.

 

[DoubleD]

Reiterating what has been said by others, it does make a difference, and it’s certainly more noticeable in the WW2 theatres. I have won and lost H2H/PvP matches because my C2 broke down and my tankers had poor situational awareness.

It’s perhaps less noticeable against AI in a modern theatre.

 

[A Canadian Cat]

For reference this thread contains the definitive investigation into how C2 works in the game.

C2 & Information Sharing (REDUX)

The screenshots in the original C2 and Information Sharing topic were destroyed by Photobucket. As a result a REDUX C2 and Information Sharing topic was created with new screenshots. Some mods that will show up most often in the screenshots are, user interface (UI) and floating icons: Floating Ic...

community.battlefront.com

You can also augment your play by using the Hard Cat rules which relies on the game C2 system to help restrict your god like view of the battlefield. It's fun try it out.

Hard Cat Rules v2I - Simple to Use Command & Control Rules - UPDATED 01 JUNE 2022

This thread is an offshoot of the Co-op AAR that @IanL and I have ongoing in the CMFS 2 forum. In that game we tested a set of realism rules we called the Hard Cat Rules. Well I have been doing a lot of talking about perhaps adding some rule additions to that basic set and got some great feedback...

community.battlefront.com

 

[ALBY]

With regard to CMBS specifically, the satellite connections are key.

US spotters can share drone footprints with other spotters if everyone has their PDA connected. While only the actual drone operator can precision target, other spotters can accurately area fire.

I’ve also discovered that if you keep RU all connected up with PDA and constellation, you can similarly share the drone footprint among all the constellation connected spotters and they can area fire on the drone footprint.

It can be a huge advantage.

 

[ALBY]

Managing command and control is an essential skill. You would be surprised at who does and does not have radios and connectivity. Every unit is faster, more resilient and more effective when properly connected. Extended over the entire force, it can be a decisive advantage and is the key to getting to the next level in CMBS.

 

[Shady Side]

With regard to CMBS specifically, the satellite connections are key.

US spotters can share drone footprints with other spotters if everyone has their PDA connected. While only the actual drone operator can precision target, other spotters can accurately area fire.

I’ve also discovered that if you keep RU all connected up with PDA and constellation, you can similarly share the drone footprint among all the constellation connected spotters and they can area fire on the drone footprint.

It can be a huge advantage.

Alby is right about everything except the precision targeting. Any spotter that can area fire off another spotters drone feed can also target precision arty from it, at least for the US but I think it works for the Russians to. The difference is for instance the actual drone operator will have a solid spot on a vehicle you want to target but the other spotter will only have unconfirmed spotting icon in place of the solid spot that the operator has but you can still precsion target the same tile. Using the drone operator you have a chance of staying locked on the target if it moves but using the secondary spotter wont move with the target it is locked on to the ground tile..

Best practice for this is to use a spotter that is attached directly to the highest level HQ you have. For example I played a Russian vs Russian game a couple months back I set my force up with 2 spotters attached to the battalion staff and used each one of them to pilot the drones. This allowed the spotting info to fed directly to the company HQs and then down to the platoons. Each company HQ had a spotter attached but playing around it I had a platoon of T72s in each company and found the the HQ tank was able to target my mortars almost as fast as my spotters could and they could use the precion rounds for my 120 mortars.

That is intel I should not give out since I am playing Alby in a couple games right now but I played CMBS for years without realizing that you could do that so I figured its better to share the knowledge. (and I just killed one of his drones though knowing him it was not the only one)

For the US setting them up like this is even deadlier because they have more data links available and if they spend the points for it their grey eagle drone is completely undetectable as long as it is observe mode... it becomes detectable if u target something with it though so best practice is to be patient and search out enemy AA and kill them with arty and then use the drone to target other vehicles..... or if your in a hurry pair it with a raven drone so the raven will draw fire and give away enemy AA positions.........

 

[ALBY]

Shady, I believe we are sort of in agreement. When I use another spotters drone to target, I ‘area fire’ the game tile on which the target resides. But, it’s Not precision in the same way as a hard spot, so I would not waste precision rounds on that type of area fire. Instead, as you well know, I’ll jump a non precision artillery mission around the drone footprint and use HE rounds to obliterate the ‘area’, with very short call times.

 

[Shady Side]

Shady, I believe we are sort of in agreement. When I use another spotters drone to target, I ‘area fire’ the game tile on which the target resides. But, it’s Not precision in the same way as a hard spot, so I would not waste precision rounds on that type of area fire. Instead, as you well know, I’ll jump a non precision artillery mission around the drone footprint and use HE rounds to obliterate the ‘area’, with very short call times.

yeah but if you know something is there u can use precision on it ... and not have to go thru the spotting phase and give it a chance to move

 

[beeftothetaco]

With regard to CMBS specifically, the satellite connections are key.

US spotters can share drone footprints with other spotters if everyone has their PDA connected. While only the actual drone operator can precision target, other spotters can accurately area fire.

I’ve also discovered that if you keep RU all connected up with PDA and constellation, you can similarly share the drone footprint among all the constellation connected spotters and they can area fire on the drone footprint.

It can be a huge advantage.

Wow, I did not know that. That's pretty huge. I wish the tutorial covered stuff like this - thanks for sharing.

That is intel I should not give out since I am playing Alby in a couple games right now but I played CMBS for years without realizing that you could do that so I figured its better to share the knowledge.

Well I don't agree with that first bit, but I appreciate that you chose to share this "intel" anyway. A game with a learning curve as steep as CMBS's is extremely difficult for new players like me to get in to. Any meaningful insights or tips into how to play a highly niche game with obscure and at times archaic mechanics can make the difference between giving up and moving on or sticking out the grind. After all, I'd assume that CMBS players would rather the player-base grow than shrink, right?

 

[beeftothetaco]

For reference this thread contains the definitive investigation into how C2 works in the game.

C2 & Information Sharing (REDUX)

The screenshots in the original C2 and Information Sharing topic were destroyed by Photobucket. As a result a REDUX C2 and Information Sharing topic was created with new screenshots. Some mods that will show up most often in the screenshots are, user interface (UI) and floating icons: Floating Ic...

community.battlefront.com

Thank you, this was very helpful.

 

[Shady Side]

Wow, I did not know that. That's pretty huge. I wish the tutorial covered stuff like this - thanks for sharing.

Well I don't agree with that first bit, but I appreciate that you chose to share this "intel" anyway. A game with a learning curve as steep as CMBS's is extremely difficult for new players like me to get in to. Any meaningful insights or tips into how to play a highly niche game with obscure and at times archaic mechanics can make the difference between giving up and moving on or sticking out the grind. After all, I'd assume that CMBS players would rather the player-base grow than shrink, right?

well i agree that is why i did share the fact that if you have your C2 set up right u can in fact use precision arty from any spotter that has access to the drone feed ..not just the pilot

 

[ChuckDyke]

Easy to make a test. Make sure all of a platoon is in C2. Whoever spots a new contact all of the platoon will be facing in the right direction. The big difference between Soviets and Germans in RT F&R. Soviets it is a matter of making contact without radio for the Germans the TacAI let them engage at longer distances and with more accuracy than a player can with sorry not a better word for it by 'cheating'. Shooting at enemy units without the friendly units spotting.

 

[Nathangun]

Using this....

Command Friction 2.0

Some of you may remember my first stab at a set of rules to enable a player to simulate the Command, Control, and Communications (C3) layer in the Combat Mission (CM) games.. the rules for that version were over 20 pages in length and were too detailed and fiddly to really be viable. I have taken...

community.battlefront.com

....and this

Hard Cat Rules v2I - Simple to Use Command & Control Rules - UPDATED 01 JUNE 2022

This thread is an offshoot of the Co-op AAR that @IanL and I have ongoing in the CMFS 2 forum. In that game we tested a set of realism rules we called the Hard Cat Rules. Well I have been doing a lot of talking about perhaps adding some rule additions to that basic set and got some great feedback...

community.battlefront.com

are the best way to play Combat Mission.

 

[ChuckDyke]

Play on Iron and you know which unit is visible to the other units. Area fire is allowed after an engagement has been triggered by the AI or TacAI. All units upon replay which were aware can do area fire. Supporting weapons after their HQ have been in communication with a friendly HQ. Artillery according to the era like WW2 or modern. It is basically common sense. Hard Cat is a good guide there are a few things I don't understand. Like canceling artillery it could be protocol like using a Very Pistol to confirm a mission.

 

[Nathangun]

like using a Very Pistol to confirm a mission.

 

[ChuckDyke]

It was pointed out to Kesselring at Nuremberg he should have used a flare to confirm not to cancel the bombing of Rotterdam. We don't have flares in CM so canceling is not allowed for WW2 scenarios.