G
Guderian
Guest
Much as i despise the politics.
Whitman and Woll. were 'the Archetype' of excellence in tank tactics.
Gudie
Much as i despise the politics.
Whitman and Woll. were 'the Archetype' of excellence in tank tactics.
Gudie
As was Otto Carius (Author of "Tiger im Schlamm"/"Tigers in the Mud")... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otto_Carius
...and Kurt Knispel... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurt_Knispel
And by the way the most successful tank ace, as last as I remember it, was Kurt Knispel (Wehrmacht). But he wasn´t much liked by the leadership because he refused a few times to obey orders (for example he should have attacked an officer who mistreated soviet POWs). But his outstanding combat performance rescued him all the time before harsher penalties. So he was ignored for awards or suggested promotions. And nevertheless he got at least the German Cross in Gold in 1944. And another hint by the way - he was nicknamed The Black Baron after the fighter Ace Manfred von Richthofen in WW1.
Wittmann was a better propaganda. And if I´m not totally mistaken Whittmann got outstanding numbers of destroyed enemy AT-guns (132 ???). There was no one better.
And there we are again - it´s always a thing of the angle You see who´s best etc.
Greeetings
List of most successful german tank aces:
1. Kurt Knispel –168 (sPzAbt. 503)
2. Otto Carius – 150+ (sPzAbt. 502
3. Johannes (Hans) Bolter-- 139 (möglich 144) (sPzAbt. 502)
4. Michael Wittman – 138 (sSS.PzAbt. 101 Leibstandarte)
5. Hans Sandrock – 123
6. Paul Egger – 113 (s SS Pz. Abt. 102)
7. Fritz Lang– 113 (StuG. Abt. 232)
8. Arno Giesen – 111 (Das Reich)
9. Oberfahnrich Rondorf—106 (sPzAbt. 503)
10. Feldwebel Gaetner ( Gartner?)– 103 (sPzAbt. 503)
...and Kurt Knispel... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurt_Knispel
And by the way the most successful tank ace, as last as I remember it, was Kurt Knispel (Wehrmacht). But he wasn´t much liked by the leadership because he refused a few times to obey orders (for example he should have attacked an officer who mistreated soviet POWs). But his outstanding combat performance rescued him all the time before harsher penalties. So he was ignored for awards or suggested promotions. And nevertheless he got at least the German Cross in Gold in 1944. And another hint by the way - he was nicknamed The Black Baron after the fighter Ace Manfred von Richthofen in WW1.
Wittmann was a better propaganda. And if I´m not totally mistaken Whittmann got outstanding numbers of destroyed enemy AT-guns (132 ???). There was no one better.
And there we are again - it´s always a thing of the angle You see who´s best etc.
Greeetings
List of most successful german tank aces:
1. Kurt Knispel –168 (sPzAbt. 503)
2. Otto Carius – 150+ (sPzAbt. 502
3. Johannes (Hans) Bolter-- 139 (möglich 144) (sPzAbt. 502)
4. Michael Wittman – 138 (sSS.PzAbt. 101 Leibstandarte)
5. Hans Sandrock – 123
6. Paul Egger – 113 (s SS Pz. Abt. 102)
7. Fritz Lang– 113 (StuG. Abt. 232)
8. Arno Giesen – 111 (Das Reich)
9. Oberfahnrich Rondorf—106 (sPzAbt. 503)
10. Feldwebel Gaetner ( Gartner?)– 103 (sPzAbt. 503)
D
Dutch Grenadier
Guest
And you can visit Otto Carius because he is still alive and live's in Germany.
G
Guderian
Guest
Senpai.
the sPzAbt. is an exclusive club. to me who reads only some german [mostly military] it is "Heavy Tank "unit" though "abteilung" is name.It is a class generalisation. in reality it could be just one vehicle.
Look at Villers Bocage. Kampfgruppe is only understood in these situations tactical or operational.
One tank halted the pommies while they ate toast and tea.
whiman returns latter with a few more tanks as backup and SHREDS the cutting edge of a regiment.
And agreed. He got the propaganda and thus most of the film because of his unswerving loyalty to the partie.
WhileKurt Knispel (Wehrmacht). Actually proclaimed an ethical position that did not fit the idiocy of the NSDAP.
My post is more about the synergy of Whitman and Woll. Thus two names.
--------------------------------------
Of you list of 10 only 2 are Waffen SS
"
With 168 confirmed (possibly as high as 195) kills,[1] Knispel was by far the most successful tanker of the Second World War[1] and is even credited with knocking out a T-34 at 3,000 metres (3,300 yd). He fought in virtually every type of German tank as loader, gunner and commander. He was awarded the Iron Cross, First Class, after destroying his fiftieth enemy tank and the Tank Assault Badge in Gold after more than 100 tank battles. When Knispel had destroyed 126 enemy tanks (with another 20 unconfirmed kills), he was awarded the German Cross in Gold. He became the only non-commissioned officer of the German tank arm to be named in a Wehrmacht communique. As commander of a Tiger I and then a Tiger II, Knispel destroyed another 42 enemy tanks.
Though he was recommended for it four times, Knispel never received the coveted Knight's Cross, a standard award for most other World War II German tank aces. Unlike some other commanders, Knispel was not consumed by the pursuit of decorations and did not suffer from a "sore throat", Heer slang for those who lusted after the Knight's Cross. When there were conflicting claims for a destroyed enemy tank, Knispel always stepped back, always willing to credit success to someone else.[citation needed]
Knispel's slow promotion is attributed to several conflicts with higher Nazi authorities (for instance, he assaulted an Einsatzgruppen officer whom he saw mistreating Soviet POWs) and general lack of military bearing, sporting a goatee and hair longer than regulations. Only his impressive track-record saved him from ending up in a military prison.
LoL . he sounds like Donald Sutherland in Kellys Heroes....http://youtu.be/49PGHggWD58
the sPzAbt. is an exclusive club. to me who reads only some german [mostly military] it is "Heavy Tank "unit" though "abteilung" is name.It is a class generalisation. in reality it could be just one vehicle.
Look at Villers Bocage. Kampfgruppe is only understood in these situations tactical or operational.
One tank halted the pommies while they ate toast and tea.
whiman returns latter with a few more tanks as backup and SHREDS the cutting edge of a regiment.
And agreed. He got the propaganda and thus most of the film because of his unswerving loyalty to the partie.
WhileKurt Knispel (Wehrmacht). Actually proclaimed an ethical position that did not fit the idiocy of the NSDAP.
My post is more about the synergy of Whitman and Woll. Thus two names.
--------------------------------------
Of you list of 10 only 2 are Waffen SS
"
With 168 confirmed (possibly as high as 195) kills,[1] Knispel was by far the most successful tanker of the Second World War[1] and is even credited with knocking out a T-34 at 3,000 metres (3,300 yd). He fought in virtually every type of German tank as loader, gunner and commander. He was awarded the Iron Cross, First Class, after destroying his fiftieth enemy tank and the Tank Assault Badge in Gold after more than 100 tank battles. When Knispel had destroyed 126 enemy tanks (with another 20 unconfirmed kills), he was awarded the German Cross in Gold. He became the only non-commissioned officer of the German tank arm to be named in a Wehrmacht communique. As commander of a Tiger I and then a Tiger II, Knispel destroyed another 42 enemy tanks.
Though he was recommended for it four times, Knispel never received the coveted Knight's Cross, a standard award for most other World War II German tank aces. Unlike some other commanders, Knispel was not consumed by the pursuit of decorations and did not suffer from a "sore throat", Heer slang for those who lusted after the Knight's Cross. When there were conflicting claims for a destroyed enemy tank, Knispel always stepped back, always willing to credit success to someone else.[citation needed]
Knispel's slow promotion is attributed to several conflicts with higher Nazi authorities (for instance, he assaulted an Einsatzgruppen officer whom he saw mistreating Soviet POWs) and general lack of military bearing, sporting a goatee and hair longer than regulations. Only his impressive track-record saved him from ending up in a military prison.
LoL . he sounds like Donald Sutherland in Kellys Heroes....http://youtu.be/49PGHggWD58
D
DasTiger
Guest
If anyone is curious here is a photo of his relocated grave in Normandy.
His stone is at the top.
This is at the LaCambe Cemetery.
His stone is at the top.
This is at the LaCambe Cemetery.
Abteilung in terms of panzer and artillery units usually meant a unit of approximately battalion size.
The 2 battalions that would make up a panzer division's panzer regiment, were referred to as 1st and 2nd Abteilung, Panzerrregiment XXX.
Same with the artillery regiments.
Battalion was more commonly used for Infantry formations.
To add to the confusion ... independent StuG units were often referred to as Sturmgeschuetzbrigaden (but were in effect battalion sized units ... well, if at full strength, which was seldom the case)
The 2 battalions that would make up a panzer division's panzer regiment, were referred to as 1st and 2nd Abteilung, Panzerrregiment XXX.
Same with the artillery regiments.
Battalion was more commonly used for Infantry formations.
To add to the confusion ... independent StuG units were often referred to as Sturmgeschuetzbrigaden (but were in effect battalion sized units ... well, if at full strength, which was seldom the case)
G
Guderian
Guest
Rico
True. but if say sPzAbt ss 101 has 2 vehicles left after being shot to shyte by usaf on way to front.
then is 2 tigers a battalion?
In my understanding Germany uses 5 not 3 as base. 3 x 5 tanks + command tank and one bckup =17
A company
[Bundeswehr thinking]
Vartuoosi as Fin had me look up snipers.[as i remembered from earlier research about greatest snipers]. the greatest of which was a fin. open site sniping is on hard game
True. but if say sPzAbt ss 101 has 2 vehicles left after being shot to shyte by usaf on way to front.
then is 2 tigers a battalion?
In my understanding Germany uses 5 not 3 as base. 3 x 5 tanks + command tank and one bckup =17
A company
[Bundeswehr thinking]
Vartuoosi as Fin had me look up snipers.[as i remembered from earlier research about greatest snipers]. the greatest of which was a fin. open site sniping is on hard game
Guderian ... well, if sPzAbt has two vehicles left (from a theoretical full strength OOB of approx 45 - 46 Tigers: 2-3 HQ tanks, 3x companies of approx 14 tanks each ) ... it's still an Abteilung, just at strength of less than a platoon.
If say the 101st Infantry Regiment is ground down to 200 riflemen, then it's still the 101st Infantry Regiment, but at at effective strength of a rifle company.
If say the 101st Infantry Regiment is ground down to 200 riflemen, then it's still the 101st Infantry Regiment, but at at effective strength of a rifle company.
G
Guderian
Guest
Just chatting Sempai . As i talk to so few with smarts on topic. i tend to ramble on.
Chatting gives one an idea of another as far as knowledge and smarts. and other less definable qualities. ethics for example.
i shall cease and desist.
bye
gudei
"Mr Humphries are you free.? Yes im free Mr Granger.
We have a customer in under wear who needs support..
i'lll see to it Mr Granger"
Chatting gives one an idea of another as far as knowledge and smarts. and other less definable qualities. ethics for example.
i shall cease and desist.
bye
gudei
"Mr Humphries are you free.? Yes im free Mr Granger.
We have a customer in under wear who needs support..
i'lll see to it Mr Granger"