You better believe it
OUCH that hurt
- Thread starter Hedgehog
- Start date
You better believe it
One of the most awful kind's of sport, if you can call it that
A
ACSpectre
Guest
Equitable pay back if you ask me.
C
Christian Soldier
Guest
Absolutely!
Well, you're right. You can't call it a sport because it is not. No doubt about the outcome as soon as the bull enters the ring. More of an art form really. I spent three years in Madrid as a kid when my dad was stationed there with the U.S. Air Force (many, many years ago). Saw 99 bullfights myself. Even took some bullfighting lesson from an American matador (very rare) who's name escapes me. Was all set to "fight" my own bull, but when we got to the ring the calf turned out to be too big (we looked eye-to-eye) and I never got the chance again.
It's not so terrible (for the bull) as one imagines from ignorance. The bulls are specially bred for the single purpose of its day in the ring. As a result they are mean, aggressive beasts with no likable characteristics like a puppy or a lamb. After the bullfight they were immediately slaughtered on site and the meat donated to charities. At least that is the was it was done in Madrid back then.
If you can get past your sympathy for the bull it is a very exciting spectacle. I had my favorite matadors and seeing one in a position like the above photo didn't make me feel better about things.
I recall one very well. His name was Jose Ramon Tirado and I saw his first appearance in the Madrid Plaza Monumental. Madrid was like getting a call up to the Major Leagues in baseball. After the banderillas had been planted (those colorful little stick thingies you've seen hanging from behind the bull's neck muscles used to weaken the muscles to lower the bull's head so as to allow the sword to go over the head easier when the time comes) the bull was by himself at one end of the ring and Tirado enters the ring from the other side with his muleta (the small red cape that has a small stick sown into it held in one hand for maneuvering). He's maybe 50m or so away and they stare at each other, the bull catching his breath and Tirado building the suspense. What's he going to do? He has the muleta in his right hand hanging down behind him as he faces the bull with his left side. There is complete silence. He give the muleta a slight shake and the bull looks up and snorts (he really did, I heard it). Tirado shakes the muleta a bit more and now has the bull's full attention. Another shake gets the bull to take a step forward and another gets him trotting. A last shake and the bull is in a full gallop and Tirado is still just standing there motionless as the bull closes ground, heading straight for him. The crowd gets restless as the bull closes and Tirado does...nothing. We are all sure this may well be Tirado's first and last performance in Madrid. At the last possible moment Tirado flips the muleta outwards behind him and to the bull's right. The bull zigs for the cape, literally sliding as he makes the minute directional change, and brushes Tirado as he roars past. It was the single most exciting/courageous performance I ever saw (as is evident by my recalling it so vividly after all these years). The crowd went nuts.
Epilogue: He did it s few more times in follow-up performances, but it caught up with him and he was badly injured when a bull didn't zig quite as much as it should have one time. He lost his nerve and was never the same thereafter. But for that one shining moment he was amazing. Maybe you had to be there.
It's not so terrible (for the bull) as one imagines from ignorance. The bulls are specially bred for the single purpose of its day in the ring. As a result they are mean, aggressive beasts with no likable characteristics like a puppy or a lamb. After the bullfight they were immediately slaughtered on site and the meat donated to charities. At least that is the was it was done in Madrid back then.
If you can get past your sympathy for the bull it is a very exciting spectacle. I had my favorite matadors and seeing one in a position like the above photo didn't make me feel better about things.
I recall one very well. His name was Jose Ramon Tirado and I saw his first appearance in the Madrid Plaza Monumental. Madrid was like getting a call up to the Major Leagues in baseball. After the banderillas had been planted (those colorful little stick thingies you've seen hanging from behind the bull's neck muscles used to weaken the muscles to lower the bull's head so as to allow the sword to go over the head easier when the time comes) the bull was by himself at one end of the ring and Tirado enters the ring from the other side with his muleta (the small red cape that has a small stick sown into it held in one hand for maneuvering). He's maybe 50m or so away and they stare at each other, the bull catching his breath and Tirado building the suspense. What's he going to do? He has the muleta in his right hand hanging down behind him as he faces the bull with his left side. There is complete silence. He give the muleta a slight shake and the bull looks up and snorts (he really did, I heard it). Tirado shakes the muleta a bit more and now has the bull's full attention. Another shake gets the bull to take a step forward and another gets him trotting. A last shake and the bull is in a full gallop and Tirado is still just standing there motionless as the bull closes ground, heading straight for him. The crowd gets restless as the bull closes and Tirado does...nothing. We are all sure this may well be Tirado's first and last performance in Madrid. At the last possible moment Tirado flips the muleta outwards behind him and to the bull's right. The bull zigs for the cape, literally sliding as he makes the minute directional change, and brushes Tirado as he roars past. It was the single most exciting/courageous performance I ever saw (as is evident by my recalling it so vividly after all these years). The crowd went nuts.
Epilogue: He did it s few more times in follow-up performances, but it caught up with him and he was badly injured when a bull didn't zig quite as much as it should have one time. He lost his nerve and was never the same thereafter. But for that one shining moment he was amazing. Maybe you had to be there.
H
[hirr]Leto
Guest
Don't care for it, but you have to appreciate the courage of the bullfighter. When I was in Madrid two years ago, I saw a terrible performance by a bullfighter, sloppy kills, and the crowd was unimpressed. Then the fourth bull came out and the bullfighters sloppiness ended up with him being gored. After an hour, the bullfighter came out bandaged and bloodied to fight the last bull.
It was bar none, one of the most spectacular performances seen in Madrid in the last decade I was told. I had to hand it to the guy, that took balls... and the fact that he put on such a skillfull and absolutely nailbiting performance, taking risks like I'd never seen, was just pure poetry.
Cheers!
Leto
It was bar none, one of the most spectacular performances seen in Madrid in the last decade I was told. I had to hand it to the guy, that took balls... and the fact that he put on such a skillfull and absolutely nailbiting performance, taking risks like I'd never seen, was just pure poetry.
Cheers!
Leto
2
2054172
Guest
Been around cattle a fair bit in my life and have been run out of a few fields by bulls:yield::scared:....I only want bull on my BBQ now.:whoo:
A
ACSpectre
Guest
That is a good point. Many who speak negatively of this or other such things, do so without considering the cultural aspects. Many may have a negative opinion of American rodeo, or of hunting, fishing, circuses, the list is endless. The point being however, that it is easy to condemn things that we are not exposed to in our own culture.
Hey mTk. You couldn't go to one more fight and make it and even 100?
Always good to see the bulls get one back -- he still dies a slow, horrible death -- but a smidgeon of payback is good to see.
Rico, if done skillfully the bull usually dies a swift death. A proper sword placement can end things as quickly as 5-10 seconds. Of course, it can get messy and your normal bullfight fan does not appreciate that and the matador will hear about it. Everything leading up to the sword has nothing physically to do with the bull's eventual death. It's just to tire him out and get him to lower his head so that when the matador goes in with the sword he can go over the horns and plant the sword where it is ideally supposed to go.
BTW, the bull doesn't care if he "gets one back." He's not keeping score, nor is anyone else. The bulls are specifically bred to kill anything that moves. That's why you'll see the matador (try to) stay still (and to show his bravery to the crowd) and there is designed cape movement so the bull is directed to go where he is supposed to.
Nort, I know! However, my folks didn't let me go the first year we were there so that worked against me. And then, I went to college in El Paso but could never talk anyone to going across the border to see one. Should have gone to at least one! However, when you need money for beer...
Just as a note, there weren't all that many Americans in Madrid at the time (circa 1955-58) and one of the main-post bullfight hangouts was a bar/restaurant at the top of a downtown hotel. Quite a few celebrities, including some matadors would show up after the day's event. I actually met Ernest Hemingway, and his girlfriend Eva Gardner, there one night. Not that I had any idea who they were at the time.
BTW, the bull doesn't care if he "gets one back." He's not keeping score, nor is anyone else. The bulls are specifically bred to kill anything that moves. That's why you'll see the matador (try to) stay still (and to show his bravery to the crowd) and there is designed cape movement so the bull is directed to go where he is supposed to.
Nort, I know! However, my folks didn't let me go the first year we were there so that worked against me. And then, I went to college in El Paso but could never talk anyone to going across the border to see one. Should have gone to at least one! However, when you need money for beer...
Just as a note, there weren't all that many Americans in Madrid at the time (circa 1955-58) and one of the main-post bullfight hangouts was a bar/restaurant at the top of a downtown hotel. Quite a few celebrities, including some matadors would show up after the day's event. I actually met Ernest Hemingway, and his girlfriend Eva Gardner, there one night. Not that I had any idea who they were at the time.
Z - I'm not going to get into an argument with you here. You obviously have strong opinions. No problem. I simply want to point out that the bull is not "tortured". He's merely tired out during the process. He is bred for a particular job and for the most part does it fairly well when the time comes. I'm pretty sure you'd change your mind about loving to see a matador or hunter get hurt badly...if you ever saw that actually happen. At least I hope so.