Standardized Rules for Competitive QBs

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DellieJonut

Guest
With input from @WynnterGreen and various others, I've come up with a few fairly simply rulesets that I think allow for more even matches... Some will balk at the idea of balance in a historical wargame, but hey, that's what scenarios are for :)

These rulesets are basically my attempt to condense and simplify what tons of people have said before. I think it'll be easier for people to say "Let's play with ruleset 1, but warrior difficulty" than it'll be for them to try to list everything and possibly forget something.

Give me your thoughts and opinions, if you think anything needs changing. If you like it maybe we can sticky it and avoid awkward first matches with newer players who aren't aware of the NO-NO's :D

The first rule ::almost:: goes without saying, and applies to any match-



Preplanned (setup phase) arty is only allowed for attackers in Attack/Defend scenarios. None in Meeting Engagements.



IF BIG CATS (PANTHERS/TIGERS) ARE NOT ALLOWED

RULESET 1


Rarity-Strict

Difficulty-Iron or Elite

Armor must not be greater than 33% of the point value of your force. No Big Cats for Axis or 76mm/17lber tanks for Allies. No Churchill VI's or Churchill VII's. Assault guns/howitzers with larger guns are allowed because they have a limited amount of HEAT rounds for anti-armor.

Arty up to 105mm.

All units set to Typical in all categories (Experience/Motivation/Fitness/Leadership).




IF BIG CATS (PANTHERS/TIGERS) ARE ALLOWED

RULESET 2A- Battle size is Large or smaller.


Rarity-Standard

Difficulty-Iron or Elite

Armor must not be greater than 33% of the point value of your force. No restrictions on vehicle selections.

Arty up to 155mm.

All units set to Typical in all categories (Experience/Motivation/Fitness/Leadership).


RULESET 2B- Battle size is Huge or bigger.


Rarity-Standard

Difficulty-Iron or Elite

Armor must not be greater than 33% of the point value of your force. Every third armor choice can be a Big Cat, so you have to pick two normal tanks/assault guns before you can buy a Big Cat, then two more, and so on. Allies can select any armor. Vehicles from the Mechanized Forces single vehicle screen do not count toward armor.

Arty up to 155mm.

All units set to Typical in all categories (Experience/Motivation/Fitness/Leadership).


RULESET 3


Rarity-Strict

Difficulty-Iron or Elite

Armor is not allowed. Allies can field vehicles with guns up to 37mm. Axis can field vehicles with guns up to 50mm. No restrictions for ON MAP infantry guns. Off map assets cannot exceed 81mm.

Arty up to 81mm.

All units set to Typical in all categories (Experience/Motivation/Fitness/Leadership).


RULESET 4


Rarity-Strict

Difficulty-Iron or Elite

Armor is not restricted in any way.

Arty up to 155mm.

All units set to Typical in all categories (Experience/Motivation/Fitness/Leadership).
 
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It's not required that you use one, but the option is there if you want to. Speaking of, I have another to add for infantry only engagements :) Also, you can adjust individual rules as you like.
 
Couple of thoughts:

Like Bootie, I generally play Elite difficulty, rather than Iron. I forget the exact reason for this, but it's something about Iron requires more clicking on icons to get the exact same information that Elite gives you. In other words, you can get the same level of information on Iron that you can on Elite, but it requires more clicking (i.e. "makework"). This may no longer be the case. Perhaps someone who knows can chime in?


DellieJonut said:
Preplanned (setup phase) arty is only allowed for attackers in Attack/Defend scenarios. None in Meeting Engagements.
Click to expand...

I fully agree and sometimes (wrongly) assume that everyone understands this "house" rule is almost universal.

Re: the 33% armor rule.... Fine if both parties agree. I can take it or leave it.

Re: limiting Big Cats (Panthers & Tigers)....meh. They are not invulnerable or invincible, even in the western front games. I'm not in favor of limiting armor choices beyond the 33% rule.

Just my 2 cents.
 
M10s and Fireflies fall under the 76mm gun rule. As for Churchills, I didn't really think about them. Do they cost more than a Sherman?
 
Meat Grinder said:
Couple of thoughts:

Like Bootie, I generally play Elite difficulty, rather than Iron. I forget the exact reason for this, but it's something about Iron requires more clicking on icons to get the exact same information that Elite gives you. In other words, you can get the same level of information on Iron that you can on Elite, but it requires more clicking (i.e. "makework"). This may no longer be the case. Perhaps someone who knows can chime in?

Just my 2 cents.
Click to expand...

I think Elite gives you slightly more LOS to HQ units, similar to how mortars can see a little farther than other units. It makes it a hair easier to maintain C2. Other than that it's exactly the same besides the excessive clicking.

Of course, these rules are just suggestions. Anyone can agree to play a match with no restrictions, on Elite difficulty. It's just a way to prevent one player from bringing a mostly infantry force when his opponent picked all armor. Those kind of games can still be fun, but IMHO don't lend themselves to what a ladder is supposed to represent. Anyone can pick an all armor force, or select Nebelwerfers and very likely win every match they play, but that's not related to their skill. This is just an attempt to put everybody on an even playing field.
 
@Bootie @Meat Grinder @Nathangun I updated the list. What do you think?

I restricted Churchill VI and VII from ruleset 1 because they have a 75mm gun and excessive armor. Changed to allow Iron or Elite. Added infantry only ruleset, AKA Fionna's Recon Rule. Added Ruleset 4 which places no restrictions on armor.
 
I do too, but I think of these more as guidelines for two experienced players playing their first match together. Once you build the trust you don't really need them anymore, unless you want to use them. I personally find the balance interesting. It makes you use different tactics than you normally might, and it makes some engagements more involved. Take Ruleset 3, for instance. If you were assaulting a city or town using it, you'd be unable to completely destroy buildings or overwhelm defenders with fire, forcing you to use good infantry tactics.

I don't think everyone should have to use one of these rules all the time, but I've found matches I play that are based on them last longer and involve more maneuver and overall strategy. Maybe the thread title should read "My contribution for more interesting QBs"
 
Well......I'm ready for a QB. Opponent takes all armor and I take all infantry. I pick map and conditions. Hint: It's going to be a city battle and I'm going to have lots of AT weapons. ;-)
 
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Hi,

I think rule sets have their place and do provide "balance" in a QB. Rule Sets go back to CM1 days, the names of the more popular ones escape my memory, however, it usually was based on caliber of gun, not quantity of unit.

I've just returned to CM and have taken only vanilla forces so far in the few QBs I'm playing as I muck around in the force selection screen. There were "choice" units to take back in CM1 and it varied through BO, BB and AK. I haven't played enough CM2 yet to see patterns in selections in QBs, however, German flak 20mm seem pretty sweet.

Shorker and I are playing a QB and I am encountering a force of 9 or more T34/85s and an IS-2. It was quite surprising to see them roll over the crest of a field and start blazing away. It is interesting to see what I can manage to do against a force I wasn't expecting. That is the fun in not using rule sets, even if it might be a mismatch. And on the other hand, I completely agree with the validity of using rule sets as well to provide the wanted balance.
 
Looking at the QB force selection I don't see a "combined arms" restriction or the "armor" one. Each of these allowed only so many points in the particular branch. CM2 doesn't have anything like this? I see only Mixed, which seems to allow anything, without a point restriction.
 
TakeTheBody said:
Looking at the QB force selection I don't see a "combined arms" restriction or the "armor" one. Each of these allowed only so many points in the particular branch. CM2 doesn't have anything like this? I see only Mixed, which seems to allow anything, without a point restriction.
Click to expand...

There is no feature like this in CMBN. Nowadays we use the honor system.
 
Yea, I miss the old combined arms setting from CM1. I mostly miss it for battles against the AI, because when you give the AI the MIX option, it often comes up with some strange force picks.

It seems that a lot of people who play PBEM like the 33% armor rule, and I'm fine with that. I'm really not keen on putting restrictions on troop quality or limiting the "Big Kitties". If you want to pay the points price for high quality troops and superior armor, be my guest. One of the most fun PBEMs I ever played was a CMBN QB that I played Yanks and my opponent bought three King Tigers. I was attacker. It was a big map and I managed to take out all three KTs with Sherman 76 flanking shots and one lucky gun hit.

The only specific weapon restriction that I think should apply to all games is the American rocket arty. The points cost of that stuff is just way too low. Or, did BFC fix that in a patch?

One fun type of restricted game that Baneman (on the BFC forums) showed me is a meeting engagement QB with no fully treaded vehicles. With the right map, this makes for a fast paced, fun game with armored cars and halftracks.
 
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