The Key to Armenia’s Tank Losses: The Sensors, Not the Shooters

Amid a lively debate about the viability of the UK’s heavy armour, the loss of over 42 Armenian T-72s to Azerbaijani forces in Nagorno-Karabakh requires further analysis.


Despite the heavy Armenian armoured losses, the key lessons from the videos Azerbaijan has published online are not about armour. Rather, they reflect how the density of sensors on the modern battlefield is changing the balance in combined arms warfare.
Before tackling this, some myths need to be challenged. There is a tendency for Western soldiers to dismiss what can be learned from these incidents because the videos show limited tactical proficiency being displayed by Armenian troops. This is misguided for several reasons. The snippet videos usually show armour manoeuvring, when camouflage is hard to maintain, and which Western forces would equally have to do if they were to affect the outcome of battle. The videos have also been selected as examples of Azerbaijani successes. However, there is actually a lot of evidence of Armenian forces digging in, concealing positions, and deploying decoys, of which at least two were struck by Azerbaijani forces.
More importantly, this dismissal of evidence suggests a lack of appreciation of just how naked the modern battlefield has become. Against a peer adversary it is entirely reasonable to expect the battlefield to be sweptby ground-moving target indicator (GMTI) radars, with tactical units able to scan terrain out to 150 km. Night or day, unusual cross-terrain movements, coordinated spacing, and lack of adherence to civilian roads, all make military vehicles highly distinct to trained operators.
A further layer of scrutiny will come from electronic warfare units. Dependency upon radio in Western operations is a hard habit to kick, especially given the stringent safety standards in exercises. Western forces tend to leave a tell-tale map of electronic signatures for an adversary to analyse. Even platoon infantry attacks tend to see a lot of exchanges on the company net. For a competent adversary these signatures offer another potent tool to map Western forces’ movements.
Such stand-off ISTAR techniques are unlikely to provide track-quality targeting solutions, unless the adversary intends to saturate a large area. It is the threat of area targeting that has driven the UK to experiment with dispersed manoeuvre with its STRIKE concept, rendering long-range area saturation uneconomical. But these techniques will be quite capable of identifying areas of interest to prioritise the allocation of UAVs and other electrooptical sensor bearers.
The hope that camouflage will conceal vehicles from observation is highly optimistic. The proliferation of infrared and thermal imaging cameras makes concealment harder – by night or day – and even vehicles under thermal screens can often be given away by personnel leaving those screens to urinate or similar, all too human, needs. More importantly, some traces are hard to cover. The best evidence that armour will be unable to hide is that Western tracked vehicles struggle to avoid observation by friendly UAVs on exercise, which can quickly follow track marks on the ground to the woodblock where a vehicle is hiding.
To conclude from this that the tank’s days are numbered, however, is a serious error. From the videos in Nagorno-Karabakh it is evident that unarmoured vehicles and dismounted infantry are faring no better, even those dug into positions with camouflage screens. Indeed, the lack of protection means they will likely fare worse since there are more kinds of munitions that are lighter and easier to employ that can kill them.
Besides the vulnerability of other kinds of vehicle, the ability to inflict persistent attrition upon an adversary at reach does not change the fact that land warfare is about taking and holding ground, and the ground will still ultimately need to be assaulted. Once committed to an assault on defended positions, armour remains critical to rapid success with acceptable losses. The challenge is to get a combined arms formation within striking distance without it having suffered heavy losses before entering the direct fire zone. Armenia, for instance, has lost the equivalent number of tanks to more than a third of the UK’s heavy armour inventory.
The lessons are far reaching. Heavy formations must likely disperse to avoid being engaged by area-of-effect munitions at reach. This makes protecting them from UAVs and air attack more challenging, requiring the integration of short-ranged air defences (SHORAD) across tactical units, along with EW – specifically electronic attack – capabilities. This means a move away from camouflage towards hard protection, able to sanitise areas of the battlefield of enemy ISTAR assets. This does not prevent detection, however, since finding UAVs and engaging them will require radar – especially at night – which implies the need for emissions detectable by enemy EW.
Therefore, a broader shift in mindset is required as to how combined arms manoeuvre functions. Infliction of attrition against enemy ISTAR must be prioritised to degrade the enemy’s sensor picture to a point where they will struggle to distinguish decoys from real targets. Deception, saturating the electromagnetic spectrum, and other active rather than passive means will be needed to protect the force as it moves into direct contact. Once in contact many traditional tactics and capabilities will remain relevant.
A critical challenge to be worked out is how to transition from a dispersed approach to a concentrated attack, since at the forming-up point there will be a significant vulnerability to artillery, anti-tank guided weapons and other threats. This is a key area of focus in developing robust tactics.
Challenges like this transition – ultimately resolvable through tactics and the employment of systems of technologies – highlight how the debate over future capabilities needs to shift. The challenge is not whether tanks are obsolete, but how a system of capabilities can be fielded and trained that gets the force to where it needs to be, with enough combat power to achieve the desired result. It is the system, not the platforms, and the balance within that system that we need to get right.
That new system of fighting – understanding the balance of capabilities critical to the future of combined arms operations – must also go further than articulating how to blind the enemy’s sensors. It must also outline how to reverse the calculus and impose comparable challenges on the enemy. Here there are more difficult structural questions to be resolved. The British Army had intended to disband 32 Regiment Royal Artillery, responsible for employing tactical UAVs, because it felt that UAVs should become organic across the force. There is a risk, however, that this would leave UAVs as an enabler to augment what regiments do already. The absence of a community of excellence to challenge thinking, develop new tactics and inform other units about the implications, is a problem, which has led to the regiment ultimately being retained. At the same time, keeping UAVs as a capability integrated throughout the force promises to encourage combined arms employment. Similar challenges might be asked about counter-UAV and EW systems. Should they be grouped at echelon, or attached organically to manoeuvre elements? If the latter is pursued, how can British forces avoid fratricide in the electromagnetic spectrum?
The answers to these questions can only be found through experimentation. In that sense while the conflict in Nagorno-Karabakh highlights some key deficiencies in British forces – SHORAD, EW, UAVs – the answer cannot be a series of binary trade-offs between platforms. Instead, it cuts to the heart of what the Chief of the General Staff, General Sir Mark Carleton-Smith, highlighted in his recent address on the Integrated Review: the British Army should build a force fit for a new age of warfare.
Jack Watling is Research Fellow for Land Warfare in the Military Sciences team at RUSI.

Banner Image: Screenshot from UAV footage of an Armenian T-72 released by Azerbaijani Ministry of Defence. Government Licence.
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Dr Jack Watling
Research Fellow, Land Warfare

Dr Jack Watling is Research Fellow for Land Warfare. Jack has recently conducted studies of deterrence against Russia, force... read morehttps://rusi.org/support





 
Somewhat inconsistent, I think.

It seems he is arguing very well for why the days of the tank are numbered... but then stops and says "But that doesn't mean that the days of the tank are numbered".

His only argument for that seems to be that lighter armoured forces also face high casualties. One could then say that yes, but they are also way cheaper to employ.

He also tries to argue that "an assault on defended positions, armour remains critical to rapid success with acceptable losses". But that assumes that losses will be acceptable.
 
Somewhat inconsistent, I think.

It seems he is arguing very well for why the days of the tank are numbered... but then stops and says "But that doesn't mean that the days of the tank are numbered".

His only argument for that seems to be that lighter armoured forces also face high casualties. One could then say that yes, but they are also way cheaper to employ.

He also tries to argue that "an assault on defended positions, armour remains critical to rapid success with acceptable losses". But that assumes that losses will be acceptable.

I don't think he argues against tanks. He argues that everything can be detected, observed and targeted by the development and wide deployment of various (new) radar/thermal/electro optical sensors combined with the proliferation of drones equipped with said sensors and smart munitions capable of destroying tanks on the move or in camouflage, etc (also: area saturation munitions like MLRS ).
So while tanks are vulnerable, other type of forces are even more vulnerable. He is arguing that one should look at tackling the problems the before mentioned problems give, instead of concluding that tanks (or other single assets) are yes/no obsolete.
If losses aren't acceptable one shouldn't wage war. Anyhow acceptability of losses is a different point compared to question of whether tanks are obsolete yes/no. Relatively less losses are still less losses, no matter how much of those are acceptable.

Of course / obviously this article is also about lobbying with interests, but I think it's an interesting piece and seems quite true at heart.

Although I presume that any Western / NATO force would first target enemy Command & Control using standoff weapons before the ground pounders are moved up.
Still as a military you have to prepare for contingencies, such capabilities could be implemented in a decentralized manner so that it can exist and perform even without a proper functioning command and control network. What can you do against it?

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With regards to Armenia I noticed that a lot of the footage looked strikingly similar to the footage of Turkish drones over Syria. Turkey has made a lot of progress with drones, I'm not sure Azerbaijan would be able to accomplish the successful drone strikes without Turkish help. Although I haven't spend too much time on this conflict.

@Rico Thanks for the link!
 
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Somewhat inconsistent, I think.

It seems he is arguing very well for why the days of the tank are numbered... but then stops and says "But that doesn't mean that the days of the tank are numbered".

His only argument for that seems to be that lighter armoured forces also face high casualties. One could then say that yes, but they are also way cheaper to employ.

He also tries to argue that "an assault on defended positions, armour remains critical to rapid success with acceptable losses". But that assumes that losses will be acceptable.

He doesnt really argue the tank is obsolet but more that even being a tank doesnt protect you much from standoff weapons in the armenian case primarily drones and that effective counters to those standoff weapons are required.
Once those weapons which are primarily used on the aproach phase of a batle are countered or used up the actual close fight stiöö requires tanks.
 
Yes I realise he is not trying to argue that the tank is now obsolete, but that's the message I'm left with anyway, from what he says. Despite his intentions.

I think his idea that you can start by fighting and winning a "sensor battle" before getting back to traditional warfare is flawed. It's a bit like a WW2 officer saying "Once we neutralise all their mortar pits or they use up all their illumination flares, we can get back to night fighting".

The problem is you never know whether you took out all the enemy mortars and flares before you attack, and then if you are wrong, you pay a heavy price. Same, as I see it, with the sensor battle. Some sensors are passive, others are active but only light up when they are actively used.

But yes, as long as the enemy can detect and target your forces with pinpoint accuracy from far away, I don't see how you can wage war. I see that as more of a command and control issue than a sensor issue though. Both sides, not only the Western/NATO side, will of course try their best to knock out enemy command, control, and communications.
 
Yes I realise he is not trying to argue that the tank is now obsolete, but that's the message I'm left with anyway, from what he says. Despite his intentions.

I think his idea that you can start by fighting and winning a "sensor battle" before getting back to traditional warfare is flawed. It's a bit like a WW2 officer saying "Once we neutralise all their mortar pits or they use up all their illumination flares, we can get back to night fighting".

The problem is you never know whether you took out all the enemy mortars and flares before you attack, and then if you are wrong, you pay a heavy price. Same, as I see it, with the sensor battle. Some sensors are passive, others are active but only light up when they are actively used.

But yes, as long as the enemy can detect and target your forces with pinpoint accuracy from far away, I don't see how you can wage war. I see that as more of a command and control issue than a sensor issue though. Both sides, not only the Western/NATO side, will of course try their best to knock out enemy command, control, and communications.

Somewhere I think it is correct that you somehow get the picture that the tank has become obsolete, or more precise that 'the ways of the tank' are changing (doctrine, applicability of the tank capability in ones national defense plans, etcetera). Like the ATGM changed it, other developments will change it.
But I don't think it is conceptually much different compared to the developments of ATGMs and HEAT warheads compared to tank protection. There was ERA, tandem warheads, APS, volley fired missiles, precursors, etc.

On the daily highway commute there is a similar competition. When the police introduced radar speedcamera's, people would get radar detectors in their car. So the police followed suite with radar-detector-detectors. And than you could get something to detect those, etc. Nowadays there are apps like Flitsmeister and I don't think they have found something against that yet, but I bet you they have been thinking about it.

Electronic warfare is already a big thing. Even CMx2 modern models it. In the article he mentions detecting radio / electronic signatures and using radar to detect forces. Those could be targeted with area targeting or for sending drones. Now there are probably already various spoofing methods which can render such devices less useful, but they can in turn also be detected and targeted by special weapons. From there on the race will continue.
Thing is more now that the various militaries of Western countries are stressing that they need to change in order to meet these developing new threats and opportunities.

Which requires a lot of moneys, so someone thinks of the marvelous idea to shout that they're gonna ditch tanks and look who's got the attention now :)
 
So as a country are you better of buying a battalion of T-72s versus a couple of radar systems and drones with ATGMs? I think the answer to that question is certainly changing, but does that make tanks obsolete?
 
So as a country are you better of buying a battalion of T-72s versus a couple of radar systems and drones with ATGMs? I think the answer to that question is certainly changing, but does that make tanks obsolete?

My impression is that tanks are now obsolete in the sense that while they are still powerful, they are not worth the investment any longer. Just like battleships.
 
Personally I'd say that if you want to have a say in a full spectrum 'peer' conflict AFVs are a still a factor. Because don't forget if you have jammed the shit out of your opponent and suppressed his whole C&C or C99i whatever network, frameworks and platforms; you'd still have to deal with the 'lowest denominator' infantry men with a couple of ol' mortar tubes shooting the shit out of your troops coming close to their positions.
Or perhaps in the future some evolved Atlas robots, acquired on ebay, can do that dirty job for you. :cool:
 
I also think the guy is wrong in thinking there will always be a need to carry out an assault. Assaults are attacks on an enemy that is still very capable. I believe modern warfare is about degrading the enemy so much from afar that you can then mop up scattered resistance. For that, you don't need MBTs but infantry in APCs. and some light support vehicles.
 
Nobody prefers assaults over standoff destruction. But look at Mosul not too long ago, that was a proper bloody assault (and much unfortunate loss of life, I might add).
My country ditched the tanks not too long ago, only to lease a battalion or such back from Germany so they can at least retain the battalion worth of troops and cadre who actually have knowledge of the tank weapon, tactics, logistics, doctrine. Throwing that away might be a real mistake, because like you say armor is still very powerful. Would you ever have to face an enemy with proper AFV forces and your stand off degradation fails, you want to get caught with your pants down?
 
Nobody prefers assaults over standoff destruction. But look at Mosul not too long ago, that was a proper bloody assault (and much unfortunate loss of life, I might add).

My impression of Mosul was that it was in fact a stand-of affair where local forces were used to bait the enemy to pop up, and to then get smashed by air power and accurate artillery. No real WW2-style assault took place, as far as I know.
 
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I also think the guy is wrong in thinking there will always be a need to carry out an assault. Assaults are attacks on an enemy that is still very capable. I believe modern warfare is about degrading the enemy so much from afar that you can then mop up scattered resistance. For that, you don't need MBTs but infantry in APCs. and some light support vehicles.

Tbh that line of thinking is valid and proven for example in the last two iraq wars if you fight a massively inferior oponent and have time.
If you dont have such a massive superiority air power starts having a far lower effect. It takes a lot of time to degrade even an inadequate air defense system such as iraqs. If you dont have the ground troops to prevent your oponent from overruning you in the mean time youre screwed. And in ground combat a platoon of ifvs beats a company of apcs and a platoon of tanks beats a company of ifvs as soon as active protection systems are involved.
 
And in ground combat a platoon of ifvs beats a company of apcs
I actually meant to say IFVs, not APCs, above.

I think at the end of the day, economics will be decisive. How much more expensive is it to field enough modern MBTs with sufficient hi-tech protection systems, compared to investing in IFVs and using the savings to stock up on AT and AA?

And could you even supply, repair, and refuel your MBTs during a war where the enemy can detect and shell your repair bases and fuel convoys extremely fast?

I think that tank supremacy started to lose importance even towards the end of WW2, for the same reasons.

But I'm not an expert in this stuff at all. So I could very well be wrong.
 
My impression of Mosul was that it was in fact a stand-of affair where local forces were used to bait the enemy to pop up, and to then get smashed by air power and accurate artillery. No real WW2-style assault took place, as far as I know.

Yes well so from that you could incur the 'bitter' truth that if any western force had to do the dirty grunt work of the local forces, there would be a lot of casualties. No WW2 assault took place because this was 2015+ age, where the Iraqi commanders had 'phones' with apps featuring maps where they could indicate 'Coaltion' airstrikes / artillery to fall quite 'precisely'. Still the Iraqi forces (mainly 'Golden Division' special forces iirc) took significant (or horrific in our terms) casualties, not to speak of the civilian casaualties.

One clip from some moments of that siege that came across my youtube recently:
 
Yes well so from that you could incur the 'bitter' truth that if any western force had to do the dirty grunt work of the local forces, there would be a lot of casualties.

If Western soldiers had been doing the grunt work, there might have been fewer casualties too? Local forces were much less trained, but much more expendable for Western politicians.
 
If Western soldiers had been doing the grunt work, there might have been fewer casualties too? Local forces were much less trained, but much more expendable for Western politicians.
Probably less indeed, but here comes the question of 'acceptable casualties', you coined above, into the equation. Acceptable is always relative and some distant city is 'worth' less to a given country compared to it's own Capital.
Now here comes the real argument: if Western soldiers are to do grunt work, they could use some great Tanks and IFVs (apart from all the other stuff) so that the casualties can be as low as possible.
We weren't talking about justice and or ethics in geopolitics.
 
Now here comes the real argument: if Western soldiers are to do grunt work, they could use some great Tanks and IFVs (apart from all the other stuff) so that the casualties can be as low as possible.

Yes, and that is the real reason for why we still see countries investing in heavy tanks, I think. For political reasons, not so much for their military value compared to their cost. Of course, if I were a soldier, I would very much appreciate having some big tanks on my side.
 
I actually meant to say IFVs, not APCs, above.

I think at the end of the day, economics will be decisive. How much more expensive is it to field enough modern MBTs with sufficient hi-tech protection systems, compared to investing in IFVs and using the savings to stock up on AT and AA?

And could you even supply, repair, and refuel your MBTs during a war where the enemy can detect and shell your repair bases and fuel convoys extremely fast?

I think that tank supremacy started to lose importance even towards the end of WW2, for the same reasons.

But I'm not an expert in this stuff at all. So I could very well be wrong.

While economics are inportant your weapon systems need to be able to defeat the oponents. If they cant then it doesnt matter how cheap they are. Pure infantry is the cheapest you can get and the wont do anything against any armoured vehicles unless they also get fairly expensive at weapons.

Supplying tanks is a task but keep in mind that drones need airfields too which can be attacked.

Id agree that tanks hav lost some of their superiority they had especially during early ww2 but thats a natural progresson of the oponents having introduced counters to them. Same as happens to any other weapons system.
So while drones make air power cheaper and force a larger investment in close range air defense once that becomes widespread the efficiency peak of drones will die off and simply go back to being one part of the combined arms.
 
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