Plane shot down today -Libya

http://www.iraqbodycount.org/analysis/numbers/plos-2011/

The authors studied 92,614 Iraqi civilian direct deaths from the IBC database which occurred as a result of armed violence between March 20, 2003 through March 19, 2008. The authors found that most Iraqi civilian violent deaths during this time were inflicted by unknown perpetrators, primarily through extrajudicial executions which were disproportionately increased in Iraqi governorates with greater numbers of violent deaths. Unknown perpetrators also used suicide bombs, vehicle bombs, and mortars which had highly lethal and indiscriminate effects on Iraqi civilians.
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I am in agreement that war does cause civilian casualties. Does this cost balance removing these dictators from their posts? I dont think so. No human life is that dispensible. Did coalition airstrikes cause casualties. Yes. The above site states that too.

I just dont know what your trying to state here. All I seen so far is you leaning towards the indiscriminant kiling of civilians by Western forces?? Which if this is your argument then I am disappointed and would expect more from a long time member at this site.
 
110 000 civilian deaths in Iraq, after 'liberation'. Weapons of mass destruction found? No.
That is called failure.
Same for Afghanistan, same for Kosovo.
Looks like same will be with Libya too.
 
Maybe we should just try the Serbian approach and ethnically cleanse everyone. It is ridiculous to me that you are trying to lecture the US about civilian casualties when your governments policy was to massacre civilians on purpose.
Lord Bane
 
WIKI, SERBIAN WAR CRIMES- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serbian_war_crimes_in_the_Yugoslav_Wars#War_crimes

CROATIAN WAR
Rebel Croatian Serbs' forces together with Serbian military and paramilitary forces committed numerous war crimes and massacres:

Baćin massacre
Bruška massacre
Dalj massacre (led by notorious war criminal Arkan)
Saborsko massacre
Lovas massacre
Å iroka Kula massacre
Å kabrnja massacre
Voćin massacre
Vukovar massacre



BOSNIAN WAR
Serbian paramilitary forces and Army of the Republika Srpska committed numerous war crimes against Bosnian civilian population:

Ahatovići massacre
Foča massacres
Korićani Cliffs massacre
Prijedor massacre
Višegrad massacre
Tuzla Massacre
Paklenik Massacre
Markale massacres
Srebrenica massacre
Srebrenica Children Massacre


KOSOVO WAR
The Serbian police and the Yugoslav Army in spring 1999 conducted a broad campaign of violence against Albanian civilians in order to expel them from Kosovo:

Incomplete list of massacres:
Suva Reka massacre — 48 Albanian civilians victims, among them many children.
Račak massacre — 45 Albanians villagers were murdered by Serb forces.
Podujevo massacre - 19 Albanian civilians, including women, children and the elderly, killed by Serb paramilitary.
Massacre at Velika Kruša — according to the Court, Serbian special police units murdered 42 persons. There is also allegetions of females mass raped.
Izbica massacre — Serbian forces killed about 120 Albanian civilians.
Drenica massacre — there were 29 identified corpses of massacre, committed by Serbian law enforcement forces.
Gornje Obrinje massacre - 18 bodies were found, but more people slaughtered.
Cuska massacre — 41 known victims.
Bela Crkva massacre — 62 known victims
Orahovac massacre — from 50 to more than 200 ethnic Albanian civilians victims
Dubrava Prison massacre — Serbian prison guards killed more than 70 Albanian prisoners.
Ćuška massacre near Peć on May 14, 1999 attributed to the Šakali
 
Those werent attrocities as they were clearing the Balkans from Muslim terrorists and Ustashi killers.
 
Those werent attrocities as they were clearing the Balkans from Muslim terrorists and Ustashi killers.
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Ok, if that is the case then shouldn't the US should get a free pass for killing Muslim terrorists too. If that were the case, then I would think that Zaraza would be cheering us on. I just think that he is still bitter that America bombed the daylights out of Serbia and forced them to stop their crimes.
Lord Bane
 
And after watching all the previus videos see exactly who you were helping when you were bombing Serbia.


 
Lord Bane (FGM) said:
Ok, if that is the case then shouldn't the US should get a free pass for killing Muslim terrorists too. If that were the case, then I would think that Zaraza would be cheering us on. I just think that he is still bitter that America bombed the daylights out of Serbia and forced them to stop their crimes.
Lord Bane
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Exactly this is my point Bombing of Serbia was a huge mistake as US and Nato managed to turn against them Serbia which knew the best about muslim fundamentalism and muslims hatred against anything that is non Muslim.
You realised this 2 years later but unfortunatelly the hard way with thousants of civilians dead and wounded.
 
I'm not an expert on Balkan politics, but why did NATO bomb Serbia?
Why didn't they help Serbia to defeat the muslim terrorists?
It's a real divided mess out there-

Yugoslavia_2008a.jpg
 
That whole areas one messed up heap. And of course any answer to your question will have the dubiety of being 'in their opinion'. Remember 2 sides to every story. I tend to stay out of these arguments as I have no idea what actually happened and why. :)
 
Lord Bane (FGM) said:
Maybe we should just try the Serbian approach and ethnically cleanse everyone. It is ridiculous to me that you are trying to lecture the US about civilian casualties when your governments policy was to massacre civilians on purpose.
Lord Bane
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One crime does not justify another crime.

Talking about civilians and their benefit is kind of spooky.

Tell me that you are in foreign country, as soldier, because you are defending political/economic/military interests of your country, searching for oil, closing to the Russians, or whatever, and i'll say - OK. Maybe i will not agree, but it is normal thing.

Tell me that you are there to defend civilians and bring peace, and i'll say - bullshit.
 
PoorOldSpike said:
I'm not an expert on Balkan politics, but why did NATO bomb Serbia?
Why didn't they help Serbia to defeat the muslim terrorists?
It's a real divided mess out there-
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Military presence is always welcome: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camp_Bondsteel
Camp Bondsteel has many facilities on base for use by the soldiers and civilian employees who live and work there, and can hold up to 7,000 soldiers which makes it the largest US base in the Balkans.
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Tell me that you are in foreign country, as soldier, because you are defending political/economic/military interests of your country, searching for oil, closing to the Russians, or whatever, and i'll say - OK. Maybe i will not agree, but it is normal thing.

Tell me that you are there to defend civilians and bring peace, and i'll say - bullshit.
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This is how the US military operates. We go to the foreign country for whatever reason, but while we are there we do protect the civilians and bring peace. That must be a foreign concept to the Serbs.
Lord Bane
 
zaraza said:
..That's nice list you compiled...deeper research would tell you that some of those are staged..
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How can we know what's true on the internet, my links or your links?



zaraza said:
..Military presence is always welcome..
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Are you saying that the Kosovans said to the Americans- "If you bomb Serbia we'll let you build a US base (Bondsteel) in Kosovo", and the Americans said "Okay it's a deal."?
 
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