Any heavy hitters out there ?????? Who's game??? I'll take anyone one on!!!!!

Hapless said:
Fair enough. Being a non-ladder type person I just assumed people would report their games no matter the result.
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It only makes sense to have a rule that says the winner reports the result (or, in the case of a Draw, the player with the highest score reports). Otherwise, it would be easy to run into the situation where both players report a result on the same game. That would only make @Ithikial 's (the keeper of the ladder) job more difficult.
 
Just completed my 4th win over Titan. I have to admit--this guy is getting damn good! Another game is on tap.
 
Nemesis said:
Just completed my 4th win over Titan. I have to admit--this guy is getting damn good! Another game is on tap.
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Be happy to play you to Nemesis. Feel free to put something on the table. I´ve got CMBN with lots.
 
This is one of those very rare occasions where we get a video from both sides of a battle!

Here's mine:

From this and other games I'm starting to think that airpower is 90% psychological: judging from the FO and Air Controller stats at the end, I think the planes netted about 30 casualties between them... which doesn't feel very cost effective on this end, to say that there were seven of them!

Good game though man, definitely some serious back-and-forth in it.
 
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Titan said:


Just shows you cant win them all, considering the amount of Airpower my army had to endure..3-4 Airstrikes a turn in many cases they did rather well, Airpower made the difference in this game
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What was that at 8:50? It looked like an ATGM.
 
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From this and other games I'm starting to think that airpower is 90% psychological: judging from the FO and Air Controller stats at the end, I think the planes netted about 30 casualties between them... which doesn't feel very cost effective on this end, to say that there were seven of them!
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Attrition of exposed armour sub-systems, suppression and morale damage to infantry, denial of movement in the open that would otherwise be out of sight to the enemy, in addition to the casualties they cause (how many vehicles did your airpower negate?). I'd say that's a very cost effective force multiplier, especially once they've initially neutralized the enemies AAA.....
 
Gnarly said:
Attrition of exposed armour sub-systems, suppression and morale damage to infantry, denial of movement in the open that would otherwise be out of sight to the enemy, in addition to the casualties they cause (how many vehicles did your airpower negate?). I'd say that's a very cost effective force multiplier, especially once they've initially neutralized the enemies AAA.....
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I lost a Jadgpanzer IV/70L , Flak Truck, two Kublewagens and his airpower destroyed both my 20mm AA guns, Plus strafing runs on two panthers and a Kingtiger and degraded equipment on all such as radios etc with the KT even losing its Optics. I grossly under estimated how effective it was and my AA was useless. Considering a P47 with 3,000 50Cal rounds is only 39 points its a bit crazy....Considering you cant even buy a 50 cal machine gun for that. He bought a ton of Aircraft and throughout most of the game i was being hit buy them. In my mind it was the difference between winning and losing
 
Ok, this is my 2p on the effects of the airpower in this battle:

The deciding factor in this battle was the destruction of German infantry: this is what produced the massive casualties that influenced the end result (we both got equal points for holding objectives).

As far as I can tell, only a single company of German infantry was strafed. This poor German company had its freedom of movement practically determined by the terrain- being out in the open in the valley bottom would have exposed them more to tank, mortar and HMG fire from my ridgeline than it would have exposed them to transitory aircraft.

The company moved around the entire right flank of the map (from my perspective), during which time it was engaged by mortars and tanks before getting strafed. Upon getting into position in the woods near the bridge, probably a bit knackered after running through snow and difficult ground, it encountered massed US infantry before being mortared some more. None of these US forces could be engaged by German armour up on Titan's ridge because of the lay of the land, so the fact that the panzers there were strafed and had sub-systems degraded was irrelevant.

The company may have also attempted to attack across the bridge area, but was driven back. Soon afterwards it was taken under yet more mortar fire, this time directed against it from a hill on the opposite flank that had been taken by US forces almost without contest. After this it came under repeated assaults from US infantry that had reoccupied the bridge, during which it was engaged by HMG and 30mm cannon fire from the same hill.

At some point all this abuse became too much and the company's morale state became an issue... but I think we can safely say that being strafed was unlikely to be the deciding factor amongst so many.


TLDR: One of us fought an integrated combined arms battle on preselected, prepared ground. One of us didn't.
 
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MeatEtr said:
Wait what? o_O Im no air support expert but im pretty sure thats a typo. If not then thats a QB bug.
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Check it out...You can pay 32 points for a P47 Thunderbolt and 35points for a P51 mustang. armed with 50cal's.. I had those things buzzing around constantly throughout the entire battle other than the first 8 eight turns...Sometimes flights between 2-4 per turn. What hapless does not take into consideration here is that you just cant measure their effectivness on damage they do but it alters and changes the options one has when moving about. Sometimes a unit can influence a battle just as much by its presence or the knowledge its lurking around than the actual act itself.
 
Hapless said:
Ok, this is my 2p on the effects of the airpower in this battle:

The deciding factor in this battle was the destruction of German infantry: this is what produced the massive casualties that influenced the end result (we both got equal points for holding objectives).

As far as I can tell, only a single company of German infantry was strafed. This poor German company had its freedom of movement practically determined by the terrain- being out in the open in the valley bottom would have exposed them more to tank, mortar and HMG fire from my ridgeline than it would have exposed them to transitory aircraft.

The company moved around the entire right flank of the map (from my perspective), during which time it was engaged by mortars and tanks before getting strafed. Upon getting into position in the woods near the bridge, probably a bit knackered after running through snow and difficult ground, it encountered massed US infantry before being mortared some more. None of these US forces could be engaged by German armour up on Titan's ridge because of the lay of the land, so the fact that the panzers there were strafed and had sub-systems degraded was irrelevant.

The company may have also attempted to attack across the bridge area, but was driven back. Soon afterwards it was taken under yet more mortar fire, this time directed against it from a hill on the opposite flank that had been taken by US forces almost without contest. After this it came under repeated assaults from US infantry that had reoccupied the bridge, during which it was engaged by HMG and 30mm cannon fire from the same hill.

At some point all this abuse became too much and the company's morale state became an issue... but I think we can safely say that being strafed was unlikely to be the deciding factor amongst so many.


TLDR: One of us fought an integrated combined arms battle on preselected, prepared ground. One of us didn't.
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Ok i got 5 cents worth...Hapless i want to be clear i'm not having a dig or want to underpin your miltary prowess, you beat me fair and square we new the rules no qualms about that. In fact i really enjoyed that battle and didn't mind losing it...no need to defend your performance as it was first class. But it is an interesting situation one i would like to take a more objective post mortem on.

To be fair it's probably unjust of me to say Airpower won the game..As we know not one thing wins the game, without your mortars etc things may have panned out different as well. Not to mention the commander yourself giving the orders as without that everything is useless. However i would rather focus on the effect your Airpower had and as you mentioned earlier we had equal points.

I think the main issue with Airpower is bang for buck i dont think there is much better. The cost for every 20mm flak gun is about double if not slightly more than the price of those P47's and my flak had no effect what so ever. In this particular battle you managed to wrestle control of the third location which as you said gave us even points so i guess my point really is all those troops and vehicles i lost and the loss of effectiveness of my infantry formations and damage to my vehicles really gave you a bonus kill count without any need to risk your own troops. Hence why the score came down to a marginal win to you. Hence you can do alot of damage without any risk. My company that got shreded and armour i lost got killed without any opportunity to engage and its almost a double dipper here as if my TD for example survived and killed a sherman instead what does that do to the score.. Same goes for my Infantry company who's abilty to fight got a big hit and you did hit some other infantry formations to it wasn't isolated to one company.

I did use combined arms as best i could....My pre game thoughts are mentioned in the AAR i did. The OOB 's for both sides are different with the German certainly having an advantage in Armour and infantry but they do have to pay for that. As far as Artillery goes well the Allies get better bang for buck here without a doubt..and Airpower....Need i say more. How many aircraft does a German player buy as i said they are pretty much cost prohibitive. In my view in this particular battle i felt the Germans best option was to buy the best Ground army they could buy. Without Airpower i doubt very much you would have pulled it off is the point
 
Titan said:
Check it out...You can pay 32 points for a P47 Thunderbolt and 35points for a P51 mustang. armed with 50cal's.. I had those things buzzing around constantly throughout the entire battle other than the first 8 eight turns...Sometimes flights between 2-4 per turn. What hapless does not take into consideration here is that you just cant measure their effectivness on damage they do but it alters and changes the options one has when moving about. Sometimes a unit can influence a battle just as much by its presence or the knowledge its lurking around than the actual act itself.
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Oh yeah that’s right, the strafe version or non-bomb/rockets aircraft. I forgot about those. Yeah even still they seem way under-priced compared to everything else.
 
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