Line of sight

[Bert Blitzkrieg]

GREY TARGET LINE NEVER GUARANTEES SOLID LOS

My Sher and that Marder have spent the whole turn firing at each other but haven't scored any hits yet because most of their shells are slamming into the slight raised embankment, and a few are flying over each others heads-

In the next order phase, the target line tool explains why; the line is grey which indicates only partial LOS, instead of being the usual light blue which would indicate a good solid LOS-

Is that realistic ? On that short distances the gun should only have to be pointed at the target, because the shell will only be airborne for a split second before it hits and will not be affected by climatic (etc) conditions.
And you cannot look partially through an enbankment like you can through trees. So you have LOS or you haven't. Partial LOS should not be possible.

Or is the LOS from the position of the commander but the gunner (and gun) doesn't have LOS? Therefore they only hit the dirt?

 

[PoorOldSpike]

'Partial' probably means only part of the target was visible, the rest was hull down.
Also, perhaps crew quality and morale state affects their aim; the tiny turret or superstructure of a hulldown tank must be hard to hit, so no wonder most of the shells kept slamming into the embankment..

 

[mTk]

I would suggest that the "partial" LOS designation means the hull MG can't fire at the target. IIRC the grey line means some of the sighting unit cannot bring all weapons to bear.

 

[Cue-Ball]

Here's a shot from a Veteran level game, there are two German question marks at lower left in clear view of my US tanks but I haven't a clue whether they're vehicles or infantry.
That's what I mean about Vet level (and higher) being too severe and unrealistic. If this was Basic Training level, they'd show as proper 3D units, not as question marks.
(I cleared the data strip (circled) by clicking an empty area of the screen to ensure the view wasn't locked to any single units eyes only, but they still remained question marks)

Here's my guess as to what's happening in that pic: Those question marks are there because some unit in the game other than the AFVs that are close (perhaps one clear on the other side of the map) saw an enemy there at one point in time. Because that unidentified unit can't see that there is an enemy there, and because they can't see that there's not an enemy there, you get question marks. Just because your units that are nearby know what is or is not there doesn't mean that your units far away, out of communication with those units, knows it.

I've had similar things happen, where my infantry stormed a building and there were still question marks showing up outside the front door. Some other unit had seen Germans running out of the building, then lost sight of them. Even though my infantry were now right there, and even though they could see there were no German units in the area, the other guy who originally saw the Germans running out had no way to know that.

 

[Hiram Sedai]

page 194
CM:Norm Manual
http://www.battlefront.com/index.php?option=com_flippingbook&book_id=19

okay, what do I win??

:laugh:

 

[mTk]

A nice jog through a mine field.

 

[AntiG3n]

LOS is definitely a lot different compared to the early generation games. Cue-Ball has it right.

When I first got the demo, in the one Axis Attack mission, I had a 76mm Sherman pounding one of my panthers for a few turns, and then knocking out FOUR Marders, one after the other, in like 30 seconds. He was positioned across the map (500-800m or so) in the trees and while my infantry could see him (which allowed me to watch the action) none of my tanks could and were thus defenseless. I had the 2 Panthers sitting next to my Marders while they all exploded, for at least two minutes of firing, and never even got a "?". At that point I surrendered the mission and decided I had more learning to do .

So, try putting your tanks in trees and don't underestimate the power of concealment and LOS

 

[Bidermann]

I play Vet level , which does give a tough fight . Regarding tank fire I very carful now of where my tanks fire.

example ( infantry platoon stuck behind a embankment under fire, I move a Sherman behind them to fire at the building which the fire was coming from. I picked area fire for my tank because I could not get a fix on the unit when my Sherman fired because the spotter was hulled down the HE rounds hit the embankment and killed half a platoon! ) lol

 

[Herroberst]

Remember that the gun sight is 14" higher than the gun on a Sherman

I saw a History Channel segment where a Sherman gunner was sighting on a Panther tank from behind a rail embankment. The gunner fired but the first shot hit the rail and as the driver nudged the tank up the embankement a bit the gunner fired and hit the second rail. The third shot hit the opposing tank. The veteran relating the story said that the Shermans gun sight was 14" higher than the gun itself so if you forget that in the excitement you would blast the embankment by mistake. From that aspect I think hitting the berm is realistic. An interesting tidbit and one that applies to German armor as well. Thus, the act of boresighting makes targetting faster and more accurate as you look down the actual barrel to do that. Not sure that TRPs can be used as bore sights as in CMx1.

 

[PoorOldSpike]

NO WINDOWS DOESN'T MEAN NO LOS

You'd think this barn wall would block LOS for anybody in there, having bricked up windows and all..

Inside view..

But no, I send a 2- man schreck team in there and the rifleman must have found an invisible chink to have a pot at that tank.
(The schreck guy wouldn't fire because schrecks can't fire from buildings)

The 'Target' line confirms there's LOS through the wall. The rifleman had the shot so he took it-

 

[mTk]

Well, that's...odd. Does it happen frequently or was that an exception?

 

[PoorOldSpike]

Dunno if it's a bug or if it happens in other building types, I only noticed it by accident when the rifleman fired and I thought "what the hell.."
Troops historically used to sometimes knock small firing holes in walls so I suppose its realistic.

EDIT- I just ran a test which involved moving squads into various kinds of other buildings, and in every case they couldn't see out through a blank wall, getting a 'blocked LOS' dark blue/magenta target line.
So I presume the barn is a one-off freak and its bricked-up windows DO count as windows for firing through.

 

[Bidermann]

One thing I have found with line of sight is that if you put your troops into hide they loose the line of sight they had .

 

[Jonny]

Grey line of sight line means that only part of the team/squad/crew etc can see the target, in your example POS the tank commander probably had LOS to the target but the rest of the crew did not. Obviously he thought he could still direct his gunner onto the target so ordered firing

One thing I have found with line of sight is that if you put your troops into hide they loose the line of sight they had .

Yes line of sight is calculated from the middle point of the men, so when you order them to hide they lay down, and the point from which line of sight is calculated changes