Out of curiosity, why is the concrete Stug excluded?
Operation Konrad - Rules Thread
- Thread starter OnePingOnly
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I think One Ping said somewhere that he found no evidence of them being there at the time of the operation.
In terms of gameplay I guess they wouldn´t be a problem as they bring no significant advantages with them. (as far as I can tell)
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Here are the proposed rule changes for Round 4.
Not included are any changes to battle length, probe vs attack, etc. I will consider these after Round 3 is completed in order to maximize the data set.
1) Fog of War / Battle Set-Up (Section VI,A and VII.A):
Battles will be initially set up by the GM, using parameters determined by the Schedule in Tables 1 & 3, subject to any Soviet counterattacks, and the choice of formations selected by the players involved.
The game set-up and Turn 1 will be taken by the GM for Player 1, using the Player 1 password. The game will then pass to Player 2 for password entry and unit purchasing. Player 2 should use their assigned password.
To preserve “Fog of War” to the extent possible, Player 1 will be assigned to the Commander that has the choice of Service (I.e., “Guards,” Waffen SS,” etc.). Where both Commanders have these options, Player 1 will be assigned to the Defender.
Why?/Rationale: To minimize advantages/disadvantages in those situations where one side would know what forces the opposing side could bring, but the reverse was not true. This maintains Fog of War as best as possible without increasing workload too much for the GM.
2) Purchasing Restrictions - QB Purchasing (Section VIII.C and Table 6)
a) Removing PzGrenadier Battalion B as a Core formation option for German Armored Infantry in table 6.
b) When purchasing single vehicles as add-ons to formations, no more than 4 ARMED vehicles of the same specific type/version may be added, and no more than 6 ARMED vehicles in TOTAL may be added. UNARMED vehicles are exempt.
c) When purchasing additional NON-CORE formations, such formations may not add more than 6 ARMED, non-transport vehicles to the overall force. This impacts SdKfz 250/251 support variants, for example, but not transport variants such as /1, /3, /7. It also does not impact CORE formations, such as Armored Infantry + Armor hybrids, when allowed by the battle.
d) When purchasing single teams as add-ons to formations, no more than 4 teams of the same type may be added, and NO additional ON-MAP mortar teams may be purchased.
Why?/Rationale: Changes are intended to promote historical forces and minimize negative player experiences (NPE). Specifically:
a) PzGren Bn 'B' includes some sub-formations that drive ahistorical forces, including the potential for Flak vehicle spam.
b & c) Attempting to limit spamming of armed support vehicles in non-historical ways. These type of vehicles were present on the front line in detachment form.
d) Attempting to limit on-map mortars beyond those organic to formations, as they drive NPE.
Some may feel that these changes don't go far enough and I'm sure there are workarounds somewhere. I'm not a fan of overly-cumbersome purchasing rules and this is about as far as I want to go in that direction. It's impractical to police at this level. I am relying on good faith and sportsmanship here.
3) Battle Outcomes - Units/Casualties (Section VI.B.3)
If a Defender achieves VICTORY but loses >60% casualties in men, then the Battalion used by the WINNING side is also removed from play.
ADDED: In Probe and Attack battles, the Defender is the actual Defender.
In Meeting Engagements, the Defender is always the Soviets, EXCEPT when a Meeting Engagement is the result of a Soviet Counterattack. In the latter case, the Defender is the Germans.
Why?/Rationale: To clarify when losses occur for Meeting Engagements, as this was not clear. This will be effective for round 3 outcomes, as it is clarifying original intent.
4) Unit Purchasing - Rarity (QB Set-Up (Section VIII)
Rarity – Use STANDARD for most battles. Use LOOSE for battles where either side is using Armored Infantry or Armor units.
Previously, the LOOSE Rarity was only for Armored Reserves on the ATTACK.
Why?/Rationale: There have been multiple examples for both sides (JPzs, Shermans) where purchasing vehicles that were in common use during Op Konrad was disadvantaged by the CMRT rarity system. This change will promote more historical force builds and hopefully some more variety.
5) Weather - Table 7
Weather for Round 4 is changed from "Snow" to "Heavy Snow."
Why?/Rationale: There are only "Light Snow" and "Heavy Snow" options when selecting QB weather. IRL, Jan 19-24 had heavier snow than prior weeks. This change is aligned with original intent.
Discussion welcome. I will make the final decision.
Not included are any changes to battle length, probe vs attack, etc. I will consider these after Round 3 is completed in order to maximize the data set.
1) Fog of War / Battle Set-Up (Section VI,A and VII.A):
Battles will be initially set up by the GM, using parameters determined by the Schedule in Tables 1 & 3, subject to any Soviet counterattacks, and the choice of formations selected by the players involved.
The game set-up and Turn 1 will be taken by the GM for Player 1, using the Player 1 password. The game will then pass to Player 2 for password entry and unit purchasing. Player 2 should use their assigned password.
To preserve “Fog of War” to the extent possible, Player 1 will be assigned to the Commander that has the choice of Service (I.e., “Guards,” Waffen SS,” etc.). Where both Commanders have these options, Player 1 will be assigned to the Defender.
Why?/Rationale: To minimize advantages/disadvantages in those situations where one side would know what forces the opposing side could bring, but the reverse was not true. This maintains Fog of War as best as possible without increasing workload too much for the GM.
2) Purchasing Restrictions - QB Purchasing (Section VIII.C and Table 6)
a) Removing PzGrenadier Battalion B as a Core formation option for German Armored Infantry in table 6.
b) When purchasing single vehicles as add-ons to formations, no more than 4 ARMED vehicles of the same specific type/version may be added, and no more than 6 ARMED vehicles in TOTAL may be added. UNARMED vehicles are exempt.
c) When purchasing additional NON-CORE formations, such formations may not add more than 6 ARMED, non-transport vehicles to the overall force. This impacts SdKfz 250/251 support variants, for example, but not transport variants such as /1, /3, /7. It also does not impact CORE formations, such as Armored Infantry + Armor hybrids, when allowed by the battle.
d) When purchasing single teams as add-ons to formations, no more than 4 teams of the same type may be added, and NO additional ON-MAP mortar teams may be purchased.
Why?/Rationale: Changes are intended to promote historical forces and minimize negative player experiences (NPE). Specifically:
a) PzGren Bn 'B' includes some sub-formations that drive ahistorical forces, including the potential for Flak vehicle spam.
b & c) Attempting to limit spamming of armed support vehicles in non-historical ways. These type of vehicles were present on the front line in detachment form.
d) Attempting to limit on-map mortars beyond those organic to formations, as they drive NPE.
Some may feel that these changes don't go far enough and I'm sure there are workarounds somewhere. I'm not a fan of overly-cumbersome purchasing rules and this is about as far as I want to go in that direction. It's impractical to police at this level. I am relying on good faith and sportsmanship here.
3) Battle Outcomes - Units/Casualties (Section VI.B.3)
If a Defender achieves VICTORY but loses >60% casualties in men, then the Battalion used by the WINNING side is also removed from play.
ADDED: In Probe and Attack battles, the Defender is the actual Defender.
In Meeting Engagements, the Defender is always the Soviets, EXCEPT when a Meeting Engagement is the result of a Soviet Counterattack. In the latter case, the Defender is the Germans.
Why?/Rationale: To clarify when losses occur for Meeting Engagements, as this was not clear. This will be effective for round 3 outcomes, as it is clarifying original intent.
4) Unit Purchasing - Rarity (QB Set-Up (Section VIII)
Rarity – Use STANDARD for most battles. Use LOOSE for battles where either side is using Armored Infantry or Armor units.
Previously, the LOOSE Rarity was only for Armored Reserves on the ATTACK.
Why?/Rationale: There have been multiple examples for both sides (JPzs, Shermans) where purchasing vehicles that were in common use during Op Konrad was disadvantaged by the CMRT rarity system. This change will promote more historical force builds and hopefully some more variety.
5) Weather - Table 7
Weather for Round 4 is changed from "Snow" to "Heavy Snow."
Why?/Rationale: There are only "Light Snow" and "Heavy Snow" options when selecting QB weather. IRL, Jan 19-24 had heavier snow than prior weeks. This change is aligned with original intent.
Discussion welcome. I will make the final decision.
Last edited:
all works for me
can u explain this a littlebit more ? maybe with an example
for the rest i think u put some good work in the changes, and what about Budapest wat u where talking about.
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I can tidy this up, too.
If the Defender wins the battle (something better than a Draw), but suffers >60% casualties in personnel, then the Defending battalion is also eliminated.
Both sides lose a Battalion in event of a draw, regardless of casualty level.
If the Attacker wins, their Attacking battalion survives, regardless of casualties.
No Budapest-specific changes as of now. We'll see at the end of Round.
My comments about "Budapest" in the other thread were actually about the 5 'Tracks' to Budapest, not about the battles in Budapest itself.
I agree with the proposed changes and the rationale behind them.
Looks good to me!
disregard
Looks good to me.
I’m good with those changes
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Rules updated in the OP.
The only addition I made to the changes detailed above is I added the provision for an all-infantry unit to purchase up to 2 trucks, if they so wish.
Rationale: A slight change to keep defenses from being entirely static (not much fun), enable movement of heavier weapons around the map on offense or defense, and enable a bit of resupply for 45 minute battles.
Rules updated in the OP.
The only addition I made to the changes detailed above is I added the provision for an all-infantry unit to purchase up to 2 trucks, if they so wish.
Rationale: A slight change to keep defenses from being entirely static (not much fun), enable movement of heavier weapons around the map on offense or defense, and enable a bit of resupply for 45 minute battles.