Plane shot down today -Libya

[PoorOldSpike]

If you don't care of all civilians killed by western forces, you shouldn't care about Scotish civilians too.
Or simply don't mention civilians.

Isn't my previous post displaying properly on your monitor mate? I said our quarrel is not with Libyan civilians but with crackpot Gaddafi.
Fortunately with todays smart weaponry we can limit civvy casualties by doing surgical pinpoint strikes on the regimes infrastructure rather than mindless carpet-bombing..

 

[Bidermann]

I have a question. Why wasn't the no-fly zone operations carried out entirely by Arab air forces? Is it because operations have to be conducted much closer to the Libyan frontier than land based air operations could conduct? Do not Egypt, Jordan, Saudia Arabia, and other adjacent countries have the capability?

I was surprised to see American journalist even allowed in Tripoli. Not that easy for Americans to get visas into there.

Thats because the Arabs will get us to do their dirty work for them , so they can then blame for the us when their people start protesting.

 

[zaraza]

Isn't my previous post displaying properly on your monitor mate? I said our quarrel is not with Libyan civilians but with crackpot Gaddafi.

And i said that civilians get killed during such humanitarian actions.

Fortunately with todays smart weaponry we can limit civvy casualties by doing surgical pinpoint strikes on the regimes infrastructure rather than mindless carpet-bombing..

Yeah, sure.
I saw that 1999.

 

[PoorOldSpike]

..And i said that civilians get killed during such humanitarian actions..

The Western air forces have just surgically taken out Gaddafi's entire SAM defensive umbrella.
Now our bombers have got a clear run to go in and surgically take out all his tanks and artillery batteries etc with Hellfires and Mavericks.
See, our flyboys have got better things to do than go around shooting at civilians..

 

[zaraza]

The Western air forces have just surgically taken out Gaddafi's entire SAM defensive umbrella.
Now our bombers have got a clear run to go in and surgically take out all his tanks and artillery batteries etc with Hellfires and Mavericks.
See, our flyboys have got better things to do than go around shooting at civilians..

Yeah, sure.
I saw that 1999.

 

[PoorOldSpike]

If a power station/bridge/arms factory etc is surgically taken out by airstrikes, it's regrettable that some nearby civvies are bound to get killed, but that's war.
Lefty propaganda says our pilots deliberately target innocent civilians, but nobody with an ounce of brains believes that.
I mean, it's ridiculous to think a multi-million dollar 2000-lb Laser-Guided Bomb would be wasted on a few civilians when it could be used to demolish a tyrants palace or command bunker or warship etc..

 

[zaraza]

If a power station/bridge/arms factory etc is surgically taken out by airstrikes, it's regrettable that some nearby civvies are bound to get killed, but that's war.

It's very regrettable that some civilians were killed in Lockerbie. Targer was airplane, not civilians. But that's war.

Lefty propaganda says our pilots deliberately target innocent civilians, but nobody with an ounce of brains believes that.

They did:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grdelica_train_bombing
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cluster_bombing_of_Niš

More?

 

[Lord Bane (FGM)]

Tonight I'm gonna party like its 1999!!
Lord Bane

 

[zaraza]

Have a good time.

 

[PoorOldSpike]

There's no proof whatever that Western air forces deliberately target civilians, it's just pure accidents.
Heck, allied forces sometimes even kill each other in 'friendly fire' incidents.
Like i said, accidents are bound to happen!

But terrorists do nothing by accident, their aim is to kill as many innocent civilians as possible, eg Lockerbie, 9/11, London, Madrid, Moscow, Bali etc..

 

[Cargol]

Bombing of Serbia and backing of Bosnian Muslims and Kosovo Albanians was a terrible mistake.
US and Nato gave breathing space to the same terrorists that killed and keep killing Thousants of US and Nato soldiers in Iraq ,Afghanistan and elsewhere.
As for Libya it is all about priorities,Berlusconi wants all his sexual scandals to be forgotten for some time,Sarkozy wants his numbers to go little bit up posing as an iron leader,UK must follow the other countries and US cant miss the party and must expent some of its weapons as new weapons contracts are always welcome.

 

[zaraza]

There's no proof whatever that Western air forces deliberately target civilians, it's just pure accidents.

2000+ dead civilians is not accident.

Heck, allied forces sometimes even kill each other in 'friendly fire' incidents.

Well, then they should do better job in their 'surgical' strikes.

But terrorists do nothing by accident, their aim is to kill as many innocent civilians as possible, eg Lockerbie, 9/11, London, Madrid, Moscow, Bali etc..

I don;t see any difference between deliberately targeting civilian train, city center refugee column and 9/11.

 

[PoorOldSpike]

As for Libya it is all about priorities,Berlusconi wants all his sexual scandals to be forgotten for some time,Sarkozy wants his numbers to go little bit up posing as an iron leader,UK must follow the other countries and US cant miss the party and must expent some of its weapons as new weapons contracts are always welcome.

Ha ha yes, plus of course the West has got its eye on Libya's oil..
Unlike other muslim/arab countries, Libya is not in the far-off dangerous middle east, it's just south of Europe and is therefore easier for the West to get to which makes it so attractive to western leaders.

 

[Hedgehog]

You are going to get civilians killed in War nothing in the world will alter that, what we have got is a civil war in Libya, flying in and bombing is OK well hello that is what the Rebels want in the way of Help, I just hope that the West does not send the foot soldiers, the Libians started among them selved so let them finish it among them selve's, if we go in we will only get blamed yet again for killng people so United Nations stay at home

 

[zaraza]

You are going to get civilians killed in War nothing in the world will alter that

Agreed. And if we are talking about moral of the story, we shouldn't count dead civilians because every side is killing civilians.
Totally another thing is talking about politics/military/economic reasons for such actions.

 

[Corsaire31]

I think it would have been much better to let arab nations solve the problem. The Egyptian army and Air Force (paid by the USA) had all the necessary stuff to deal with the situation and were just across the border. I don't think the west has much to gain in this story. We've been happy to sell weapons and airplanes to Khaddafi for years, and the oil production of Libya is peanuts (2% of the total oil production). I would much agree with Cargol's post about the personal interests of a few political leaders.

 

[AirborneBob]

We've been happy to sell weapons and airplanes to Khaddafi for years,.....

You mean the French...Its is estimated Khaddahfi has only 1 Mirage still capable of operation along with a slew of Mig-21's , 22's and 23's

 

[Corsaire31]

Of course, only France has been selling Mirages... lol
That's probably true. We sold him 38 in the 80s and 3 years ago, when our stupid president invited him to put his tent up in Paris, we sent some technical stuff to have some servicing. They said 4 were able to fly out of the 38. Since 2 defected and landed in Malta earlier on, and I think one ejected over the sea because he refused to bomb civilians, that's one left.
Of course I suppose we will be happy to sell new stuff to the new government once things have been blown up...

 

[eniced73]

Caring about civilians is hypocritical. If you care about Scottish civilians you should care for Libyan civilians too.

Your missing the point zaraza. We do care about Libyan civilians thus supporting the removal of Muammar Gaddafi and the people that support him. I dont know how your country is but in mine I am allowed to march up and down my street and protest that my government sucks and I want change. And guess what I can do it with out even getting a freakin' bullet to my dome. Yep. That is right. Not one person will shot a gun at me or drive a tank over top of me. Can you believe it?

Not saying that all countries involved want that madman out of control but shooting your own people for demonstrating against you! That is madness. You are right that Libya did pay milions of $$$$ in compensation but guess whose pocket it did not come from. That fool amassed billions of dollars from those people over the 40 some years that he took control. I dont like to get involved in these types of discussions but when you mentioned 911, yep, you struck a nerve.

 

[Corsaire31]

The US lost a F15 E Strike Eagle yesterday due officially to mechanical failure. First pilot was recovered by a V22 Osprey from a US helicopter carrier and second has been rescued by rebels and driven to the egyptian border. The F15 E is a big stack of bucks !