Starting to make some progress with Mius

In the WW2 games both the German and American half-tracks have vulnerable gunners in CM. Its been discussed and iirc tests by players done, but in the end Battlefront seems to be of the mindset that its working as designed. In Combat Mission when dealing with WW2 half-tracks its best to regard them as nothing more that glorified trucks.

In Gravteam they are far more useful at least in the Eastern Front. I haven't played Tank Battle Tobruk in a while so I don't know how the American half Tracks with machine guns fare, but if its like the Eastern Front then they are useful. The machine guns and the way they are modeled in GT make them deadly.
 
Zeke_21 said:
In the WW2 games both the German and American half-tracks have vulnerable gunners in CM. Its been discussed and iirc tests by players done, but in the end Battlefront seems to be of the mindset that its working as designed. In Combat Mission when dealing with WW2 half-tracks its best to regard them as nothing more that glorified trucks.
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Well, the US ww2 halftracks don't have any shield for the gunner. If the casualty rate is the same that would mean the 251/1 shield is no workie.
 
Redwolf said:
Well, the US ww2 halftracks don't have any shield for the gunner. If the casualty rate is the same that would mean the 251/1 shield is no workie.
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Its been my experience that in CM you can expect HT gunners to last 1 turn before being shot. That applies to both US and German. I wouldn't hold my breath for BF to change things, they can be stubborn at times and they've argued that players use them too aggressively, the scale of the battle maps are small so HTs are too far forward-in real life they would unload infantry much further back and stay further back.
 
Zeke_21 said:
Its been my experience that in CM you can expect HT gunners to last 1 turn before being shot. That applies to both US and German. I wouldn't hold my breath for BF to change things, they can be stubborn at times and they've argued that players use them too aggressively, the scale of the battle maps are small so HTs are too far forward-in real life they would unload infantry much further back and stay further back.
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Well, but obviously in real life they were close enough to make effective use of their MG. At least the Germans.
 
I did some testing in CM at the time I heavily played CM and some results can be found at this forum, but as far as I remember I never tested HT Gunners survive rate, because it is in my opinion obvious that it is broken in CM, but it would be great to back this impression up with some testing.

Coming back to GT: I had played a long time ago GTOS and a few days ago I started to come back to GT with Mius Front and Tunisia. Coming from extensively playing CM, which is still a fine game, I had some problems adapting to GT. I am getting better now, but there are still big things I have no real clue about.
One thing is the question how do I set everything correct so that my units can call on map fire support like artillery or mortar by themselves? And the other thing I try to learn is how to play better on the operational map, for example I do not understand fully how reenforcements are distributed and how I can influence this?

@Zeke_21, do you still play War in the East 2 and how is your process there?
 
Kraut said:
One thing is the question how do I set everything correct so that my units can call on map fire support like artillery or mortar by themselves?
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It's a bit difficult to achieve, because you need the right chain of command to be present on the map. And since if you play with the mode where you control individual platoons on the operational map, they will often be scattered so that when you enter battle, the company HQ will not be there, or it will be the HQ of a different company, etc.

If you manage to get a platoon and its company HQ in the same battle, then they also need to have a communication link. In Mius, that usually means wire. If you are attacking, then you won't have wire comms as you enter the battle, and the HQ and its platoon will often be far away from each other. Too far for the wire layers (they have a max range of about 1 km if I remember correctly). So you need to move them closer together and then wait a long time while wire is laid. This can be difficult or impossible depending on battle conditions.

But OK, now you have your platoon in communications with its company HQ. If the company HQ has a mortar squad attached directly to it, this mortar should now respond to fire requests by the platoon. You need to toggle on the AI fire control for the mortar unit only. The icon is a human head with a gear inside. Toggle this off if you want to hold fire. Toggle "stay concealed" for the mortar to fire smoke.

The situation gets a bit more complicated if you want to use for example an infantry gun section that forms an individual 'platoon' unit of its own and is subordinate to the battalion commander. In that case, now you need two more units on the battlefield at the right time and right place, all located correctly and wired up - and since Mius Front automatically decides who participates in a certain battle and who doesn't, often one of these units gets cut off from entering the battle. This means you can't use the whole fire support system.

There's a game mode called "Battlegroups" where it doesn't split up units before battle, and this makes it much easier to use artillery. However, it also means very big battles and no options to strike at a weak point of the enemy line as you can with the other system.

I hope this helps.
 
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Kraut said:
I did some testing in CM at the time I heavily played CM and some results can be found at this forum, but as far as I remember I never tested HT Gunners survive rate, because it is in my opinion obvious that it is broken in CM, but it would be great to back this impression up with some testing.

do you still play War in the East 2 and how is your process there?
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I don't think testing and proving machine gunners on HTs get killed too fast will make BF change the code if they are of the belief that the short ranges represented by the battle maps and overly aggressive player use is the cause of machine gunners on HTs getting shot too easily.

I've put aside War in the East 2 for now. Grigsby games is like taking a college course. I also have a full Allied Campaign in War in the West I fire up from time to time to resume.
I am playing some Decisive Campaigns Barbarrossa, which I'm starting to think is a better representation of the early states of Barbarrossa that War in the East 2.
 
So what is a good distance for halftrack positioning (and dismounting) supposed to be? 1000m cost you about 10 minutes of infantry walk time. And the vehicle MG34 isn't particularly effective at this distance.
 
I'd just like to know at what distance the Germans used their halftracks historically, and how well they did in that role. I sincerely doubt it was 1000m. Wouldn't you start to get plunging fire at that distance? The shield is to protect against direct fire from the front, not bullets dropping down from the sky.

Also the design of the gun shield remains a mystery to me. Seen from the front, it looks like quite a bit of the gunner's helmet is poking up over the shield.
 
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Bulletpoint said:
I'd just like to know at what distance the Germans used their halftracks historically, and how well they did in that role. I sincerely doubt it was 1000m. Wouldn't you start to get plunging fire at that distance? The shield is to protect against direct fire from the front, not bullets dropping down from the sky.

Also the design of the gun shield remains a mystery to me. Seen from the front, it looks like quite a bit of the gunner's helmet is poking up over the shield.
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Was wondering same thing. Took a quick look into my Panzer Tactics book and didn't see anyhting immediately. May not be a set answer. If enemy is suspected of having AT guns or tanks you may stay back more that 1000 meters. Availability of supporting arms like mortars, artillery and smoke would also factor in. The Russians had a lot of ATRs that fired bullets that would probably penetrate the thin armor of HTs at a considerable distance.

Aside from limited battle space in Combat Mission games, time is also compressed. In real life taking 10 or so minutes to walk 1000m isn't a big deal. IN a simulated battle where you only have so much time before battle ends 10 minutes is a big deal.

Gravteam tactical battles have more space and distance. Also the way machine guns are modeled in GT is vastly different. Machine guns seem more terrifying and effective in GT and half tracks mounting them are quite effective.
 
It seems that some people judge this game as "useless" or similar and give up trying to figure out how to play it successfully when the only reason to why it doesn't work for them is that they're too lazy to even try enough.

It's just like someone who says a book is bad or stupid only because they haven't given themselves the time enough to learn how to read before they expected the book to contain easily understandable pictures.
 
Bulletpoint said:
For example, if an enemy tank is driving towards infantry, they will actively run out of the way to avoid getting run over.
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Maybe I'm a bit late with this reply. But I think the reason to why infantry in CM doesn't avoid tanks, or any vehicle, that are moving towards them is that all vehicles in CM can drive through each other and through trees and people without hurting any of it.
 
BornGinger said:
Maybe I'm a bit late with this reply. But I think the reason to why infantry in CM doesn't avoid tanks, or any vehicle, that are moving towards them is that all vehicles in CM can drive through each other and through trees and people without hurting any of it.
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You could also say that it's the other way around: Vehicles don't crush infantry in CM because they haven't been able to program the individual soldiers to try to get out of the way.

The whole thing is abstracted in CM, but modelled in GT.
 
As the current war in Ukraine rages on, my virtual war against Russia also continues. I'm finally able to manage a bigger operation, where distance, fuel, logistics, and tank repair really come into play. It's very fascinating to have to throw units into gaps in the line piece-meal and then having them wiped out because they arrive exhausted and can't deploy properly due to their "arrived" state.

Currently, my Panzers are having a rest to repair and refit before pushing beyond Marinovka. My only repair platoon is working around the clock to put tracks back on, replace vision blocks, and in some cases, scraping the remains of the previous crew into unmarked graves.

Does anyone know if it's possible to attack with a unit though friendly lines on the operational map? As in, there's a front line where all available positions are taken up by friendly infantry units, and I have tanks behind them. Will I be able to attack through, or do I need to manually open a gap in the line to allow the tanks to pass the infantry?
 
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HOA_KSOP said:
I have not played for awhile, but you are inspiring me to stumble back through it again. Thanks for sparking my interest again!
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If you have played it, I'd be interested in hearing your opinion on the 10-turn Stepanovka 1941 campaign, as the Germans. I've started up the cmpaign and restarted it midway several times, trying to figure out what the "proper" way is to go about it.

You start being told that the Russians are retreating and you get a few companies of infantry to chase them and take various objectives. I find that the Russians do retreat, but if you actually trigger a battle with them, you'll get crushed because they have some T-34s and you only have infantry (and a few 3,7mm AT guns that are nearly useless). Some of the fleeing Russians only have infantry, but it's difficult to know which have what before you trigger a battle with them.

So is it an exercise in advancing but avoiding battle? Or triggering battles and then retreating immediately if tanks are spotted? And in this way gathering intel...
 
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