Worst scouts ever!

R

RagingBunny

Guest
So I'm playing the Huzzar! scenario against DoubleD, which starts off with a recon phase. (He's giving me a run for my money.)

Below are my brave but somewhat near sighted scouts, coming to a stop at a crossroads. Note the timer.

"Hanz! Stopf! Da ist something in front of uns!"
"Really? Was ist in front of uns then, Heinrig?"
"Hm, ein moment... Where did I put mein glasses..."
Spotting1.jpg

21 seconds later....

"Ah, found my glasses. Let's see was das ist in front of uns then..."
"Donnerwetter! Amerikaner!"
"Ah ja, Ich see. Wait, let me take 10 seconds to aim, wouldn't wanna miss, jawohl!"
Spotting2.jpg
Anyone else getting these... somewhat odd spotting results? What do you guys think? How do you deal with it? Any tips?
 
Funny German dialogue - great entertainment! :D Liked it very much! Honestly!

Two things are coming to my mind which are making this spotting scene less odd maybe:

1.) What is the experience level (training level) of the German haltrack crew? I guess it's "regular"?
Many think "regular = standard / normal" - but it isn't! It is only the fourth best available training level.
Measured in American school marks "regular" equals only a "D".
One should not expect too much from "D" soldiers. ;)

2.) The scenario is playing in dawn time? (Only my guess) So the sun is still standing deep, the shadows of the trees and bocage are still long and there is not much light at all. And then there are trees with bocage to the left and to the right side of the street - so spotting is nearly like in night conditions, I'd say.

Here we have an example why it is so important to let your scout units hold/stop for a while (sometimes even fo a full minute/turn) and just let them look around and check the area.
 
Shorker said:
Here we have an example why it is so important to let your scout units hold/stop for a while (sometimes even fo a full minute/turn) and just let them look around and check the area.
Click to expand...

Absolutely agree with this, I give my scouts lots of way points with 15-30 second pauses, and the results are noticeable.
 
"I think I heard something..."

(Allied CMBN - MG campaign - after hitting the ceasefire button).

CMNormandy2013-12-1322-35-33-55_zpsc35f1cdb.jpg~original
 
Aha! You learn something new every day. Opening up (either on an emotional level or in a practical sense) and using waypoint pauses it is, then. Thanks for the tips guys!
 
Hello Raging Bunny, glad to see you you are playing Huzzar, it's a good scenario and you will have fun. I had the same thing happen with my German scout cars. Shorker's advice is good, it is early morning dark and your German soldiers are probably suffering from a huge hangover and can't see a thing. LOL

Have fun
 
I note all the guys comments, but the simple truth is - its rubbish. Its a flaw. If you think it looks wrong then it probably is. Sad we have all come to just make excuses for it. Hey ho - guess thats because despite everything it still is the best around.

Personally I am hoping to live long enough for Combat Mission 7 where they finally ditch the engine and start again from scratch with a coherent line of sight and spotting policy. ;)
 
Richtig said:
I note all the guys comments, but the simple truth is - its rubbish. Its a flaw. If you think it looks wrong then it probably is. Sad we have all come to just make excuses for it. Hey ho - guess thats because despite everything it still is the best around.

Personally I am hoping to live long enough for Combat Mission 7 where they finally ditch the engine and start again from scratch with a coherent line of sight and spotting policy. ;)
Click to expand...

Bingo. :cheers:
 
I take elite recon with long pauses, costly but effective when used carefully
 
Richtig said:
I note all the guys comments, but the simple truth is - its rubbish. Its a flaw. If you think it looks wrong then it probably is. Sad we have all come to just make excuses for it. Hey ho - guess thats because despite everything it still is the best around.

Personally I am hoping to live long enough for Combat Mission 7 where they finally ditch the engine and start again from scratch with a coherent line of sight and spotting policy. ;)
Click to expand...

Richtig,
are you not too harsh with your critics?
Is it possible that humans do not see a HUUUGE thing like a train only 50 m away in clear sunlight? Is it possible that people cross the street, although a truck is clearly approaching?
I mean the system is not perfect, but with some good will this behaviour of the game can be explained:

Driving in such an amoured car, the "windows" are really tiny. No comparison when the head is sticking out and looking around. I think this difference is reflected quite well by the game (another topic is, if the commanders should put their heads down (much) faster, when they hear a bullet being aimed at them or their vehicle).
Then add the imagination, that the crew somehow could be distracted inside and not focused on what you as player are focused on.
Such things happen to humans all the time. They cross in front of trains and trucks and don't see them. Why should it be impossible to imagine, that a CM-crew has a few bad seconds?

And then add a few theoretical circumstances, like a bad vision, shadows, sunlight and it's not far fetched to be in the range of a dozen seconds.

As external observer you may think that it's impossible that a car's driver does not see the huge truck he will in one second drive into - but nevertheless it happens everyday - and from the perspective of the driver there was no truck...
 
@Volksgrenadier Nope.

Are you familiar with the story of the emperors new clothes?

But to be honest - in reality you only have two choices - except it as the broken flawed game it is - or find out more about how the whole spotting system was created and works (I use the term works loosely) and potentially never play it again once you see it for what it is.

Just my humble opinion... (well backed by 45+ years of gaming experience).
 
Play nice everyone or 'Taylor' may have to come out and warn everyone. :)

Spotting is not perfect but it does get the job done for most situations you will experience as a commander. I think the abstract unknowns we have as players is both a benefit but also a hindrance in this respect. If we knew every little detail that goes into the spotting calculations we'd be more likely as players to 'game the system.' SOmetimes the unknown is a good thing.

As for tank commanders (and halftrack gunners), have to agree with Volks on that one. Just playing a CMRT battle at the moment with Armoured Panzergrenadiers and am being reminded pixeltruppen aren't the best at reacting to incoming gunfire when their heads are sticking up outside a vehicle. Would be great if you 'open up' your halftracks, that the gunner tac ai as the ability to 'duck down' when under fire/suppression goes up, and will automatically get back up on the gun once the bullets whizzing pass die down some. May improve their survivability some.

Everyone has a wishlist.
 
@Rambler I realised that after and usually I respond with heavy sarcasm too - I think it's the best defence against the fan boys defensive comments.

Been watching a lot of aars lately. And it's going to be interesting if we get to hear from ChrisND because I feel sometimes you can feel his pain when a bit of silliness or a 'that's a really good spot' occurs

I hate to be a negative voice but it does infuriate me to see things that should be fixed as a priority defended as acceptable. But hey I'm a big boy I appreciate we can't always get what we want- or to mix one of my favourite sayings with my favourite games biggest flaw, even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while....

@Volksgrenadier sorry for biting...
 
@Rambler
@Richtig

In the comments of you both I cannot find a single counter argument for my suggestion how this spotting outcome good be seen with a positive mindset. IMO that's a really bad style to "discuss".
 
I'm not sure the system could be gamed even if you were sure of what was happening beneath the hood... my understanding is that the units go through "spotting cycles" that happen once every seven seconds, with a percent chance to spot based on distance, facing and cover of the spotted unit every time this happens. There might be more to it than this. Wasn't it done this way because of the lack of cpu power for real time spotting?

Spotting is wacky sometimes, sure. Is there a better solution though? With the amount of calculations being done it might not be possible to have a better solution, until the game engine is rebuilt and optimized.
 
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