Coronavirus

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HOA_KSOP said:
Hmmm, I am not sold on the calculated risk argument. It is been reported that the government locked down Wuhan Province
While allowing people to leave China for destinations outside the country. Instead of being the good guy and protecting the world population they shared the virus. Who gains from that, especially when you are the worlds largest medical supplier. Coincidence or calculated risk? Doesn't Sun Tzu talk about defeating an enemy using indirect means? Even if you don’t have the capacity to manufacture a virus that doesn't Mean you can’t exploit it. Nation states exploit situations everyday. I know I sound pessimistic but nation states are not known for their altruism towards a potential adversary. Trust me the US is not immune to this type of behavior either.
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I'm fully with you regarding nation states, perhaps some more than others, would exploit such situations at their own interest. It's just that the practical implementation seems far fetched to me.

Young and upcoming party member: 'XI, we have discovered new infectious virus'. What you want to do about it?
XI: Can we infect Trump with it?
--
Me: mmmm, I see where you're going :ROFLMAO:

Joking aside, they probably already shared the virus before lockdown of Wuhan Province. Locking down the whole country would have cost China MUCH more economically compared to just Wuhan province. Personally I think that what they're trying to hide, is that they f'ed up. They didn't really did such a good job at all and didn't want to have the hard hit to their economy closing the whole country down.
That's bad press and makes them look bad. I'd say 95 vs 5% chance of likeliness compared to 'infect Trump' scenario.

IIRC Sun Tzu's most importantly stressed that the best way to win a war is to win without a fight. Taken very literally you could see 'infecting the world with a virus', as 'not fighting'. However, when things do come out I guess the backlash from it will be probably worse.
 
Nathangun said:
Thanks buddy will do, if there's any left.
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S
Lethaface said:
I'm fully with you regarding nation states, perhaps some more than others, would exploit such situations at their own interest. It's just that the practical implementation seems far fetched to me.

Young and upcoming party member: 'XI, we have discovered new infectious virus'. What you want to do about it?
XI: Can we infect Trump with it?
--
Me: mmmm, I see where you're going :ROFLMAO:

Joking aside, they probably already shared the virus before lockdown of Wuhan Province. Locking down the whole country would have cost China MUCH more economically compared to just Wuhan province. Personally I think that what they're trying to hide, is that they f'ed up. They didn't really did such a good job at all and didn't want to have the hard hit to their economy closing the whole country down.
That's bad press and makes them look bad. I'd say 95 vs 5% chance of likeliness compared to 'infect Trump' scenario.

IIRC Sun Tzu's most importantly stressed that the best way to win a war is to win without a fight. Taken very literally you could see 'infecting the world with a virus', as 'not fighting'. However, when things do come out I guess the backlash from it will be probably worse.
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you make sense. However my personal motto is “always question authority”, no matter what government it is. I can totally see an authoritarian government of over a billion people “sacrificing” some millions for the good of the party if it means getting the upper hand. The Chinese have been trying for some time to gain control of the internet and to replace the dollar with the yuan as the world’s currency. You start a shooting war with the US and you might lose , you leverage an insidious virus against your enemy and no one’s the wiser because you control the flow of facts. I do not think it is far fetched at all. A win is a win, whether you fight fair or not.
 
HOA_KSOP said:
you make sense. However my personal motto is “always question authority”, no matter what government it is. I can totally see an authoritarian government of over a billion people “sacrificing” some millions for the good of the party if it means getting the upper hand. The Chinese have been trying for some time to gain control of the internet and to replace the dollar with the yuan as the world’s currency. You start a shooting war with the US and you might lose , you leverage an insidious virus against your enemy and no one’s the wiser because you control the flow of facts. I do not think it is far fetched at all. A win is a win, whether you fight fair or not.
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Perhaps far fetched sounds different in my book/1st language. It's not that I don't see them capable of such feats, rather that the context around the corona outbreak seems not that likely for such an endeavor in my eyes. The casualties can be collateral (but not 'lightly'), tangible results were never guaranteed.

Regarding authority I have a similar a view/approach, especially if that authority tries to exact authority over me ;)
 
Well-spoken Lethaface.

I know what I've said sounds far fetched, but I at least entertain the possibility. Sometimes reality is stranger than fiction. Take Tiger King, for example. So is using a plague to gain an advantage really that far fetched?

I believe that most governments, being bureaucracy's, are not agile and did not react decisively enough. In the case of the Party, it's not a good idea to unilaterally act decisively without the blessing of the powers that be. So if some mid-level official could have stopped it he probably didn't because he didn't want his ass on the line for overstepping his authority. In a democracy, you generally play it safe until it's too late, because you are risk-averse in case you act decisively, but take the wrong tact. Two different systems, each suffering from their specific inertia's. So from those humble inadequacies, the world suffers mightily.
 
Not a fan of China.

Oppressive, Communist government. No regard for basic human rights. No respect for intellectual property. Runs their own citizens over with tanks. Does not abide by basic international trade rules.

Fuck China and their president Xi Jinping.

Ching Chong Ding Dong
 
Reality definitely weirder than fiction, lol. The only thing our bureaucracies seem very agile at, is politics, communication and public relations (cq propaganda). When it comes to actually doing stuff, we are not that flexible at all. In that regards being autocratic does have it's merits.
Although I agree that among some of the things both of you noted and the social points, facial recognition cameras and the 'resocializing camps' there are quite some significant issues with the way China is behaving. One could think that the middle class would demand improvements in certain area's, but lately there don't seem to be any. Some 20 years ago I was already thinking China needs to change if it really want to take a stab at being the 'world leader', tbh still think they need to. One way or the other, change will come.
While I like Chinese people and food, I'm glad to live under my national incompetent but relatively innocent government.
 
Meat Grinder said:
Not a fan of China.

Oppressive, Communist government. No regard for basic human rights. No respect for intellectual property. Runs their own citizens over with tanks. Does not abide by basic international trade rules.

Fuck China and their president Xi Jinping.

Ching Chong Ding Dong
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Here here.

Getting back to the virus itself. I have read that the virus most likely made its jump to humans in the country side and the Wuhan wet market was just the biggest place where lots of humans were infected - by other humans who were already sick. This well done and well sourced expert analysis is an interesting read:
https://www.reddit.com/r/science/comments/gk6y95

He wrote to examine (and ultimately refute) the claims that the Chinese government created the virus but in it he also points to some initial transmission scenarios that include a high likely hood that the virus was circulating quite a bit sooner than even the first people who discovered it knew. In this case doctors who were silenced by the Chinese to prevent embarrassment.

One of the largest faults with the Chinese Communist Party (not uncommon with any dictatorships) is their total lack of interest in accountability and willingness to ignore facts to reshape their BS to make themselves look good or at least avoid blame. They do this as part of their abuse of their own citizens and they do this on the world stage because their ego is still bused by <insert tragic history and abuse by others>. Its all just an attempt to pretend they are awesome and the best and that nothing is ever wrong. Instead of recognizing problems and attempting to work on solutions they would rather just BS their way around it. If they put that much energy into trying to make their citizens lives better and work constructively with the rest of the world we would all be better off.

The truth is this inability to face mistakes and take action to correct them or improve is the mostly likely reason things got as bad as they did.
 
A Canadian Cat said:
Here here.
One of the largest faults with the Chinese Communist Party (not uncommon with any dictatorships) is their total lack of interest in accountability and willingness to ignore facts to reshape their BS to make themselves look good or at least avoid blame. They do this as part of their abuse of their own citizens and they do this on the world stage because their ego is still bused by <insert tragic history and abuse by others>. Its all just an attempt to pretend they are awesome and the best and that nothing is ever wrong. Instead of recognizing problems and attempting to work on solutions they would rather just BS their way around it. If they put that much energy into trying to make their citizens lives better and work constructively with the rest of the world we would all be better off.

The truth is this inability to face mistakes and take action to correct them or improve is the mostly likely reason things got as bad as they did.
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When your national psyche is predicated on the concept of "losing face", then you are not fit to lead anything. For all the issues we have in the US, and brother, are they on display for the whole world to see these days, at the end of the day we are accountable. Not only as a country have we been known to lose face, but we have also had some real episodes where we have a lot of mud on it as well. Truth be told, we have the capacity to “own it”, where as I don’t think the Chinese do.

In my estimation the Chinese owe the United States a huge debt of gratitude. If it weren’t for the efforts of a publicly disgraced President in the ‘70’s they’d still being waving little red books and wearing Mao garb and getting their asses kicked by the Vietnamese Army about every ten years.
 
HOA_KSOP said:
When your national psyche is predicated on the concept of "losing face", then you are not fit to lead anything. For all the issues we have in the US, and brother, are they on display for the whole world to see these days, at the end of the day we are accountable. Not only as a country have we been known to lose face, but we have also had some real episodes where we have a lot of mud on it as well. Truth be told, we have the capacity to “own it”, where as I don’t think the Chinese do.

In my estimation the Chinese owe the United States a huge debt of gratitude. If it weren’t for the efforts of a publicly disgraced President in the ‘70’s they’d still being waving little red books and wearing Mao garb and getting their asses kicked by the Vietnamese Army about every ten years.
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  1. Chuck Norris was exposed to the Coronavirus. The virus is now in quarantine for a month.
  2. If you spell Chuck Norris in Scrabble, you win. Forever.
  3. Chuck Norris breathes air … five times a day.
  4. In the Beginning there was nothing … then Chuck Norris roundhouse kicked nothing and told it to get a job.
  5. When God said, “Let there be light!” Chuck said, “Say Please.”
  6. Chuck Norris has a mug of nails instead of coffee in the morning.
  7. If Chuck Norris were to travel to an alternate dimension in which there was another Chuck Norris and they both fought, they would both win.
  8. The dinosaurs looked at Chuck Norris the wrong way once. You know what happened to them.
  9. Chuck Norris’ tears cure cancer. Too bad he has never cried.
  10. Chuck Norris once roundhouse kicked someone so hard that his foot broke the speed of light
  11. If you ask Chuck Norris what time it is, he always says, ‘Two seconds till.’ After you ask, ‘Two seconds to what?’ he roundhouse kicks you in the face.
  12. Chuck Norris appeared in the ‘Street Fighter II’ video game, but was removed by Beta Testers because every button caused him to do a roundhouse kick. When asked bout this “glitch,” Chuck Norris replied, “That’s no glitch.”
  13. Since 1940, the year Chuck Norris was born, roundhouse kick related deaths have increased 13,000 percent.
  14. Chuck Norris does not own a stove, oven, or microwave , because revenge is a dish best served cold.
  15. Chuck Norris does not sleep. He waits.
  16. There is no chin behind Chuck Norris’ beard. There is only another fist.
  17. The chief export of Chuck Norris is pain.
  18. Chuck Norris recently had the idea to sell his pee as a canned beverage. It’s now called Red Bull.
  19. If paper beats rock, rock beats scissors, and scissors beats paper, what beats all 3 at the same time? Chuck Norris.
  20. On the 7th day, God rested … Chuck Norris took over.
  21. Chuck Norris can dribble a bowling ball.
  22. Chuck Norris drinks napalm to fight his heartburn.
  23. Chuck Norris’ roundhouse kick is so powerful, it can be seen from outer space by the naked eye.
  24. If you want a list of Chuck Norris’ enemies, just check the extinct species list.
  25. Chuck Norris has never blinked in his entire life. Never.
  26. Chuck Norris once shot an enemy plane down with his finger, by yelling, “Bang!”
  27. Chuck Norris does not use spell check. If he happens to misspell a word, Oxford will change the spelling.
  28. Some kids pee their name in the snow. Chuck Norris can pee his name into concrete.
  29. Chuck Norris’ calendar goes straight from March 31st to April 2nd, because no one fools Chuck Norris.
  30. Chuck Norris counted to infinity… twice.
  31. Chuck Norris can speak Braille.
  32. Chuck Norris can have both feet on the ground and kick butt at the same time.
  33. Chuck Norris can do a wheelie on a unicycle.
  34. Chuck Norris stands faster than anyone can run.
  35. Once a cobra bit Chuck Norris’ leg. After five days of excruciating pain, the cobra died.
  36. Chuck Norris once won a game of Connect Four in three moves.
  37. Champions are the breakfast of Chuck Norris.
  38. When the Boogeyman goes to sleep every night he checks his closet for Chuck Norris.
  39. Chuck Norris can slam revolving doors.
  40. Chuck Norris does not hunt because the word hunting implies the possibility of failure. Chuck Norris goes killing.
  41. The dark is afraid of Chuck Norris.
  42. Chuck Norris can kill two stones with one bird.
  43. Chuck Norris can play the violin with a piano.
  44. Chuck Norris makes onions cry.
  45. Death once had a near-Chuck-Norris experience.
  46. When Chuck Norris writes, he makes paper bleed.
  47. Chuck Norris can strangle you with a cordless phone.
  48. Chuck Norris never retreats; He just attacks in the opposite direction.
  49. Chuck Norris can build a snowman out of rain.
  50. Chuck Norris once punched a man in the soul.
  51. Chuck Norris can drown a fish.
  52. Chuck Norris once had a heart attack. His heart lost.
  53. When Chuck Norris looks in a mirror, the mirror shatters. Because not even glass is dumb enough to get in between Chuck Norris and Chuck Norris.
  54. When Chuck Norris enters a room, he doesn’t turn the lights on, he turns the dark off.
  55. The only time Chuck Norris was ever wrong was when he thought he had made a mistake.
  56. Chuck Norris can tie his shoes with his feet.
  57. The quickest way to a man’s heart is with Chuck Norris’s fist.
  58. Chuck Norris is the only person that can punch a cyclops between the eye.
  59. Chuck Norris used to beat up his shadow because it was following to close. It now stands 15 feet behind him.
  60. There has never been a hurricane named Chuck because it would have destroyed everything.
  61. Outer space exists because it’s afraid to be on the same planet with Chuck Norris.
  62. When Chuck Norris does a pushup, he’s pushing the Earth down.
  63. Chuck Norris is the reason why Waldo is hiding.
  64. Chuck Norris doesn’t wear a watch. He decides what time it is.
  65. Chuck Norris does not get frostbite. Chuck Norris bites frost.
  66. In Pamplona, Spain, the people may be running from the bulls, but the bulls are running from Chuck Norris.
  67. Chuck Norris spices up his steaks with pepper spray.
  68. The Great Wall of China was originally created to keep Chuck Norris out. It didn’t work.
  69. Chuck Norris can get in a bucket and lift it up with himself in it.
  70. Most people have 23 pairs of chromosomes. Chuck Norris has 72… and they’re all lethal.
  71. Chuck Norris is the only man to ever defeat a brick wall in a game of tennis.
  72. Chuck Norris doesn’t shower, he only takes blood baths.
  73. Chuck Norris can divide by zero.
  74. The show Survivor had the original premise of putting people on an island with Chuck Norris. There were no survivors.
  75. Chuck Norris destroyed the periodic table, because Chuck Norris only recognizes the element of surprise.
  76. Chuck Norris once kicked a horse in the chin. Its descendants are now known as giraffes.
  77. When Chuck Norris was born, the only person who cried was the doctor. Never slap Chuck Norris.
  78. When Chuck Norris does division, there are no remainders.
  79. It takes Chuck Norris 20 minutes to watch 60 Minutes.
  80. Chuck Norris proved that we are alone in the universe. We weren’t before his first space expedition.
  81. Chuck Norris once went skydiving, but promised never to do it again. One Grand Canyon is enough.
  82. Chuck Norris once ordered a steak in a restaurant. The steak did what it was told.
  83. We live in an expanding universe. All of it is trying to get away from Chuck Norris.
  84. Chuck Norris had to stop washing his clothes in the ocean. Too many tsunamis.
  85. Chuck Norris can sneeze with his eyes open.
  86. Chuck Norris can cook minute rice in 30 seconds.
  87. Chuck Norris beat the sun in a staring contest.
  88. Superman owns a pair of Chuck Norris undies.
  89. Chuck Norris doesn’t breathe, he holds air hostage.
  90. Chuck Norris can clap with one hand.
  91. Chuck Norris doesn’t need to shave. His beard is scared to grow.
  92. Before he forgot a gift for Chuck Norris, Santa Claus was real.
  93. In an average living room there are a thousand objects Chuck Norris could use to kill you, including the room itself.
  94. Chuck Norris invented airplanes because he was tired of being the only person that could fly.
  95. Chuck Norris’s belly button is actually a power outlet.
  96. Freddy Krueger has nightmares about Chuck Norris.
  97. Chuck Norris is the only man who can fight himself and win.
  98. Chuck Norris’ cowboy boots are made from real cowboys.
  99. Chuck Norris can start a fire with an ice cube.
  100. The flu gets a Chuck Norris shot every year.
 
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