Coronavirus

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Runround

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And I find the words "missing the news out there in the islands" condescending!
And why is exactly that close knit societies are´nt having mass deathts of covid?
Could it be because its not so easy to find the john does of victimhood?
 

Runround

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And to finish off.

I know well that I have gone out of line some bit.
But you can´t be having this thread without going personal or political, you just can´t. Not unless you like to pretend.
This affects us, some more than others. And if you are gone have this thread open, then by God I will have my say about the matter in my mind and not someone elses!
Corona virus is a scam that will take more freedom and liberty from us the same way 911 did. Thats it I have to say. I will post no more on this thread.
 

HOA_KSOP

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And why is exactly that close knit societies are´nt having mass deathts of covid?

Because they are insular by nature (or choice) and stay close to home? Not a criticism, just wondering why that would be, that close-knit groups are not seriously impacted-at least that we know of. Because they are close-knit does not mean they'd necessarily be forthcoming if they had an outbreak.
 

Runround

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Because they are insular by nature (or choice) and stay close to home? Not a criticism, just wondering why that would be, that close-knit groups are not seriously impacted-at least that we know of. Because they are close-knit does not mean they'd necessarily be forthcoming if they had an outbreak.
We had several so called instances here on the Faroe Islands, and not one casualtie, nor any in intensive care!
 

HOA_KSOP

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Thanks, Runround, for airing your views. We all agree to disagree on occasion and I appreciate that your opinion differs from many. As you have pointed out this is a touchy subject and after several months of the effects of the pandemic/hoax/whatever you believe, it is understandable that this discussion on occasion rubs folks the wrong way. I appreciate that you have spoken your piece and have stepped away. Take care.
 

HOA_KSOP

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We had several so called instances here on the Faroe Islands, and not one casualtie, nor any in intensive care!
Then you are money ahead my friend. Faroes? Man, you are in the boonies.
 

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I think that the reason that some societies are more impacted than others is population mobility and general health of the population. Take the US, for example. Very mobile society, but generally unhealthy. Two-thirds of Americans are either overweight or obese. Actually, 36.5 % of Americans are classed as obese. If obesity is a high-risk group, then over 1/3 of Americans are potential victims. Pretty sobering if you think about it. 10.5% of Americans are diabetic, another high-risk group. Many of the diabetics are in the obese category as well, so they are double whammyed. I figure that Faroes folk are in good health, probably not sedentary or obese, and probably don't suffer from diabetes. So you all are gonna come out smelling like roses.
 

Lethaface

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FLUUUUU BUUU HUUU.
"Denier" bah! The mortality rate of this fucking thing doesnt even compare to jerk off casualties!
Yet everyone goes apeshit afraid of it! Am I missing something, or has the whole planet lost its nuts?
The point which you are missing is that they basically nuked the economy using this thing called lock down, question is what the mortality rate would be without all those measures. If you believe the virus doesn't exist, that's your choice. I unfortunately know it does and yes most people who pass away have other conditions as well. And yes, quite a few of those people might have passed away anyway in a short time. But that's the thing with statistics, they are difficult to really grasp for people not well versed in probabilities etc.

One thing which doesn't show in mortality numbers is the permanent/longterm damage quite some people get who have survived. And those aren't necessarily only people with other or 'prior' issues. A cold or 'regular' flu doesn't create permanent lung damage or have you revalidate for months/years to be able to sport again.

Plus, people going apeshit is just our nature unfortunately. Just look at this thread :p
 
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Lethaface

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And to finish off.

I know well that I have gone out of line some bit.
But you can´t be having this thread without going personal or political, you just can´t. Not unless you like to pretend.
This affects us, some more than others. And if you are gone have this thread open, then by God I will have my say about the matter in my mind and not someone elses!
Corona virus is a scam that will take more freedom and liberty from us the same way 911 did. Thats it I have to say. I will post no more on this thread.

There are several ways to speak out ones mind, at least I feel that freedom here ;-)

Here in NL we are in the 'second wave', which seems to be much less critical compared to the first wave. While during the first wave our IC capacity was almost fully maxed out, at the moment that's much less the case. There are several theories for that. Personally I think that during the first wave a lot of people in the 'risk group' got infected, plus there weren't that many tests so many people with light symptoms were never tested. Now there are more tests, plus in general it's more younger people that get infected + tested. In part because they in general are less disciplined adhering to safety guidelines, compared to people who are in the risk category. Another simple thing is that quite a number of the 'risk' group is now no more.

I know several people who have been infected. One friend of me from the UK (38) has passed away. He did have something else too, of which the doctors initially stated he will recover from. But things went fast and suddenly he got corona too and he passed away. A grannie of a friend of me have passed away too, while her daughter got very sick but survived. A roommate of my niece (~20) got very ill as well (IC) and will probably need a long recovery, no prior conditions known. My colleagues partner works on an IC in a hospital in Amsterdam and has told a bit about his experiences.
An old colleague of mine and her husband both got infected. She didn't have much symptoms, but he was very ill for a couple of weeks but didn't have to go to hospital.

All in all, it's real enough for me. Apart from not being able to take knives on airplanes and the security checks, 9-11 didn't really take any tangible liberties from me (yes my internet traffic/calls etc is probably monitored and registered somewhere in a NSA DC). Although I think that the USA War on Terror did exactly result in the opposite of what it aimed to achieve. That's another discussion though.

I'm happy that here in NL we measures were always 'intelligent'. So, we haven't been strictly confined to our houses at all. Just make sure to keep 1,5m distance, basic hygiene advise, etc. Apart from the public transport there is no face masks rule. Sports have restarted (with measures), etc.

Also, while I'm normally quite critical of our government, I think they are doing fine in this crisis. They take measures, explain how and why they take m. If new insights / developments give reason, they change measures (relaxing/stricting) and explain why.
Are all measures perfect? No, of course not. There was very limited info and limited time, so sometimes you just need to make a decision on a hunch. Go and stand there, being responsible for a country. Damned if you do something, damned if you don't.

There are many discussions like these, also among my friend groups etc. At first I didn't feel like involving, but after a while I felt like participating in it to 'correct' some views ;-). At that moment there were a lot of people working their asses of, trying to save people and trying to create some form of coherent policy and a plan for this pandemic in which like you say a lot was and is still unknown. In holland quite a large number of infections and also quite some people died who worked in the healthcare. Everyone is free to think what they like (at least in my country), but denying it exists is doing a disservice to those busy fighting it imo.

To finish with a wink:

 

Abbasid111

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They have to isolate the virus first in order to research it. So far they haven´t been able to do that, hence the bullshit.
There is zero proof that the virus even exists!
Yet everyone is suposed to pretend it does, otherwise you´re a selfish granny killer.
Keep your head in the sand
Oh and Santa Claus and the Easter bunny are not real
I would love to see your peer reviewed scientific proof on the non existence of a Novel Coronivirus.
Facts please
 

Runround

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Keep your head in the sand
Oh and Santa Claus and the Easter bunny are not real
I would love to see your peer reviewed scientific proof on the non existence of a Novel Coronivirus.
Facts please
Why don´t you prove to me first that Santa and easter bunny aren´t real?
 

Lethaface

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I just proved that I did in the previous post.
No, you proved that you haven't got a clue about how empirical evidence (or any scientific way of postulating and proving a theory) works.

If you want to assert Santa or the Eastern Bunny exists, the onus is on you. Not on someone proving it doesn't exists.

Now, there is plenty of proof available about the isolation of the corona virus. You might need to get a PhD in virology to actually make sense of it, and or lab access to see for yourself. But if you can google and can differentiate between a random website and one from an actual scientific institute / governing body, whatever, than you can find for yourself the proof that COVID-19 virus has been isolated quite a while ago. It is mutating, like other viruses, but that's a different point.
 

Runround

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If memory serves, science is suposed to proove something and then disproove it. Something along those lines.
What we are seing as far as Covid and man made climate change isn´t science. It reminds more of a cult mentality, probally because it serves a money purpose. The result are fixed and are not to be questioned, and woe to him that dares question it (science) What about those 1000 plus doctors in Germany that recently disagreed with the narrative, are they cookoos along with the other professors and doctors?
You saw what MTK wrote about me earlier "virus denier" thats stigmatizing people.
Fact is, if the government would tell people that santa existed based on people receiving presents, millions would probally believe it.
 
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Lethaface

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We were talking about what science is, but now you are now distorting the subject by mentioning all kind of different things. So I'll answer in bullet post form.

If memory serves, science is suposed to proove something and then disproove it. Something along those lines.
mmm, no. Proving something is TRUE, followed by proof that the same something is FALSE, isn't very scientific (perhaps you were intending to say 'prove that the opposite is false'?).
Science is about many things, one important part of it is to establish a framework in which we can all agree something is TRUE or FALSE (or whether it isn't possible to prove either). This is why a statement backed up by solid scientific research according to a vetted methodology is valued more than a statement without similar repeatable validation as to why that statement is true.

What we are seing as far as Covid and man made climate change isn´t science.

Who is seeing that and based on that grounds? Just because you say it isn't science, it isn't?
From what position or knowledge do you feel that you can factually claim that it isn't science? (anyone can has an opinion). You haven't proven anything, not even reasoned anything. Do you read David Icke?

You just state it isn't science, and so we should believe you? While you seem to not even know what science is exactly

I'm not convinced.

It reminds more of a cult mentality, probally because it serves a money purpose. The result are fixed and are not to be questioned, and woe to him that dares question it (science)
Clearly you have been sleeping under a large rock, because almost half the world including the current US president has actually questioned things like climate change and Covid. Upon those challenges, came a lot of proof.
What we in fact see is people yelling 'there is no proof', but when the proof / research / facts are presented to them they don't even want to know about it. They choose to be ignorant.
There is plenty of evidence around: not only scientific research, everyone with half a brain can ascertain himself that the world is actually warming up and that people are actually dying of Covid-19. You just down want to see it. You choose to believe what you believe, that's fine. There is the saying ignorance is bliss.

And yes also among scientists there is corruption, they are humans after all.

But choosing to believe ALL climate scientists and ALL virologists, among others, are ALL in a BIG scheme to get your money and have created climate change and Covid-19 as their 'vehicles' for such a scheme: now that's quite an achievement.

What about those 1000 plus doctors in Germany that recently disagreed with the narrative, are they cookoos along with the other professors and doctors?
Yeah, what about m? What did they disagree with exactly? Do they say Covid-19 doesn't exist?

Apart from those 1.000, there are another 401.100 doctors in Germany. So they are all in the scheme and just 1000 came out?

You saw what MTK wrote about me earlier "virus denier" thats stigmatizing people.
Well you actually denied that Covid-19 exists, didn't you?
So what is the stigma in that he calls you a 'virus denier'?

Fact is, if the government would tell people that santa existed based on people receiving presents. Millions would probally believe it.
Now that isn't a 'fact', because that's not how facts work. However, I do agree with you that probably millions would believe it.

If something is probably true, it can't be a fact.
 

Runround

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mmm, no. Proving something is TRUE, followed by proof that the same something is FALSE, isn't very scientific.
Science is about many things, one important part of it is to establish a framework in which we can all agree something is TRUE or FALSE (or whether it isn't possible to prove either). This is why a statement backed up by solid scientific research according to a vetted methodology is valued more than a statement without similar repeatable validation as to why that statement is true.
Science is about questioning. If 2 plus 2 equals 4, you might want to question 4 and see if it´s really divided by 2!
We are not seing that when it comes to Covid or Man made climate change. " the results are in, and you´re fired if you wonder about them"
And if all agree upon it, then it ceases to be science, and becomes fact! Science is foremost about questioning and investigating, and even try to disprove what you former have concluded. Not with Covid! nah ah! the results are in, shut up and wear a mask!
Even though there are thousands of doctors and professors who disagree.
Who is seeing that and based on that grounds? Just because you say it isn't science, it isn't?
From what position or knowledge do you feel that you can factually claim that it isn't science? (anyone can has an opinion). You haven't proven anything, not even reasoned anything. Do you read David Icke?

You just state it isn't science, and so we should believe you? While you seem to not even know what science is exactly

I'm not convinced.
Whats with all the "you"? I haven´t concocted this out of my own brain. I´ve decided to use my critical thinking and listen to those with expertise on the subject matter. The ones that are never heard or seen in the mainstream medie despite of their knowledge, education degrees, and so on.
And so what if I read David Icke? Again, Stigmatizing.
But choosing to believe ALL climate scientists and ALL virologists, among others, are ALL in a BIG scheme to get your money and have created climate change and Covid-19 as their 'vehicles' for such a scheme: now that's quite an achievement.
Mmm, but all scientists, and all virologists aren´t agreeing on the desired subjects. Disagreeing is a huge factor when it comes to science.
And to believe that this is not a money scam is naive at very best.
One short example. Biggest contributor to WHO is Bill Gates, and he is gona make a bundle with those DNA altering vaccines.
Apart from those 1.000, there are another 401.100 doctors in Germany. So they are all in the scheme and just 1000 came out?
I´m going to assume that what you are telling me is correct. I will also liberate myself to assume, that a vast numbers of those 400k doctors agree to disagree in silence.
Why rock the boat when you have a steady comfortably income and a mortgage to pay?
Well you actually denied that Covid-19 exists, didn't you?
So what is the stigma in that he calls you a 'virus denier'?
Is skeptic to far off?
 

Lethaface

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Science is about questioning. If 2 plus 2 equals 4, you might want to question 4 and see if it´s really divided by 2!
We are not seing that when it comes to Covid or Man made climate change. " the results are in, and you´re fired if you wonder about them"
And if all agree upon it, then it ceases to be science, and becomes fact! Science is foremost about questioning and investigating, and even try to disprove what you former have concluded. Not with Covid! nah ah! the results are in, shut up and wear a mask!
Even though there are thousands of doctors and professors who disagree.
Whats with all the "you"? I haven´t concocted this out of my own brain. I´ve decided to use my critical thinking and listen to those with expertise on the subject matter. The ones that are never heard or seen in the mainstream medie despite of their knowledge, education degrees, and so on.
And so what if I read David Icke? Again, Stigmatizing.
Mmm, but all scientists, and all virologists aren´t agreeing on the desired subjects. Disagreeing is a huge factor when it comes to science.
And to believe that this is not a money scam is naive at very best.
One short example. Biggest contributor to WHO is Bill Gates, and he is gona make a bundle with those DNA altering vaccines.
I'm not seeing what you are seeing that no critical thinking is allowed in science. That's perhaps the most crazy thing I have read today. Where I live scientists aren't fired usually for critical thinking. In fact, it's what they do for a living.

On what do those 1000s of doctors disagree? Of course about whether the measures are the right ones and it's good that there are critical people. There are those who argue that the measures and the consequences of those are more damaging than the epidemic. Now that is an interesting question, and obviously everybody able to think critically can see that there will be a difficult tradeoff, somewhere.

But where is that exactly? You say, because '1000s of doctors' don't agree (although you fail to mention on what exactly and you don't provide sources) that the covid-19 doesn't even exist.

Now, why I asked about David Icke isn't to 'stigmatize' you. You are positioning yourself as a victim, while I just don't agree with your statements and thinking in a conceptual similar way as you don't agree with mine. What is the stigma that I'm placing upon you?

I asked if you read him because in my book he is a known fantasy story seller, who believes/tells about among other things that Lizards in humanoid disguise roam our planet. I'm afraid that it is a waste of time to try to agree to something if where we come from is so different. I do still wish you all the best, I'm not hurt if you think such things. I just don't have a wish to have a discussion about science with someone reading David Icke.

I´m going to assume that what you are telling me is correct. I will also liberate myself to assume, that a vast numbers of those 400k doctors agree to disagree in silence.
Why rock the boat when you have a steady comfortably income and a mortgage to pay?

Would 'rocking the boat' mean a doctor loses his income? Did those 1000s of German doctors lose their jobs?

You are assuming quite a lot based of very little.

Is skeptic to far off?

Miles off, different ballpark.
 
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Lethaface

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For humanity I will give it a last shot:

And to believe that this is not a money scam is naive at very best.
There is indeed a money scam going on here.

I have also seen (parts) of movies by self acclaimed 'doctors' say things along the lines you say. Than some people busy with investigative ( non main stream :) ) media did some research. Turned out to person who was interviewed was no doctor but actually owner of some publishing company, where, fully accidentally, the interviewer was about to publish a book about the 'real facts of covid-19'.

Now a critical question for you: how do you know that the things you choose to believe aren't a scam for money, like I described here? This is a rhetorical question.
Peace out.
 
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