Fact..Pin back your lug Holes

Jonny said:
I just had a thought, surely no one can claim the bible in english is the exact word of god, as surely it's been translated at least twice and whenever anything is translated, stuff is lost and stuff is added
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Well good question, The bible was written in Hebrew at lease the old testament, and the NT was what They call new testament greek and Aramehic(sp) Scholars of those languages translated it into english and many other languages. Yes some things get lost i.e. Take the english word 'love' in the NT there are three words for what the english word 'Love' trys to capture. The love between God and man, the love between a man and a woman and the the love betwen two men(brotherly love). So english does not do it justice at all the same for quite a few words but if one wants to the sorces and ability to study are there for the learning. The main ideas in both the orginal and the modern versions contain the same stuff and teachings. An example would be the Dead sea scrolls. Which were discover not so long ago and contained a copy of the Book od Isaiah in the OT which as you say was translated a few times. It was almost verbatum to what we have to day nothing was lost. See if I believe a god that can creat the whole universe by a spoken word can do that , do you think He is not capible of keeping His Word true to what He orginally inspired?
 
No but as a basis the 10 commandments make sound sense to living a full and fruitful life.&nbsp; :)<br><br>I just dont go with organised religion myself.&nbsp; I believe a relationship with God is a personal thing and that O.R are only in it for the power and money.<br>
 
Bootie said:
No but as a basis the 10 commandments make sound sense to living a full and fruitful life.&nbsp; :)<br><br>I just dont go with organised religion myself.&nbsp; I believe a relationship with God is a personal thing and that O.R are only in it for the power and money.<br>
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I tend to agree to a point that OR is a problem...but you can't through out the baby with the bath water. The propuse of OR is that we don't have a bunch of independants running around without sound doctrine and theology. One can end up like a Jim Jones koolaid party.
 
2054172 quote- I tend to agree to a point that OR is a problem...but you can't through out the baby with the bath water. The propuse of OR is that we don't have a bunch of independants running around without sound doctrine and theology. One can end up like a Jim Jones koolaid party

But most OR theology is twisted and corrupt anyway, we need them like we need a hole in the head.
"Ignorant people distort things,to their own destruction" (2 Pet 3:16/17)
 
Bootie quote- I just dont go with organised religion myself. I believe a relationship with God is a personal thing..

Yay, we're all on our own in that respect and it's no good running with the big mindless unthinking herds of OR if they're all going up the spout-
"Work out your own salvation." (Philip 2:12 KJV)
 
<P>I must say, this has been the calmest and most adult discussion on this topic&nbsp;I have ever witnessed or participated in, online. Thank you, all.</P>
 
I think what it boils down to is the ten commandments if you follow
them not always to the rule you do have some sort of control over
the human race which in turn does do for a better world.

So what ever your views are or where the commandments come
from they I believe have kept some kind of control on this
great place of ours called the world, of course people being
what they are do cause trouble which is a tragedy on it's own
but really this is a great place to be.
 
Man needs a basis for his moral and spiritual well being...if not you end up with weird religions like on the pacific islands.
 
2054172 said:
Man needs a basis for his moral and spiritual well being...if not you end up with weird religions like on the pacific islands.
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It is all perception. No doubt those Pacific islanders would consider Christianity weird, and us as pagans.

It is a theory of mine that (almost) all religions, at least the major ones, were all created/influenced by the Judeo/Christian/Islamic God. He allowed local traditions to dictate the format of that religion.
 
Iron Mike USMC quote - It is all perception. No doubt those Pacific islanders would consider Christianity weird, and us as pagans.

Well I think them eating Captain Cook was pretty weird..;)
Here's Christianity in a nutshell-
"Love God, love one another, feed the hungry, house the homeless, clothe the destitute, tend the sick, visit the prisoners, look after the poor"-Jesus of Nazareth
so if pagans or anybody else have a problem with that, to hell with 'em..:)
 
Let's not forget that if we log onto christianity it begins downloading into us, giving us an inner strength and power just like it says on the box..:)

"Our gospel came to you not simply with words, but also with power.." (1 Thess 1:5)
"For God did not give us a spirit of timidity, but a spirit of power, of love and of selfdiscipline" (2 Tim 1:7)
"After Jesus spent the night in prayer,everybody tried to touch him because power was coming from him" (Luke 6:12-19)
"I am full of power, judgement and might by the spirit of the Lord" (Mic 3:8)
"..my Christian faith has been such a backbone through so many difficult times...for me Christianity is...about being strengthened" (Bear Grylls)

In a sense, by logging onto christianity, we are in effect "touching" Jesus.
Jesus said - "Someone touched me, I know that power has gone out from me." (Luke 8:46)

And how do we 'log on'?
Easy, we simply mumble 3 little words any number of times throughout the day if we're feeling fed up or knackered- "Jesus remember me", and bingo, the connection is enabled..:)
Those are the words the crook on the cross next to him said, to which Jesus replied "Today you'll be with me in paradise"..
 
iron mike usmc said:
It is all perception. No doubt those Pacific islanders would consider Christianity weird, and us as pagans.
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So do you not believe that there is truth...you can not have truths if all is perceptions.


It is a theory of mine that (almost) all religions, at least the major ones, were all created/influenced by the Judeo/Christian/Islamic God. He allowed local traditions to dictate the format of that religion.
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I disagree and each of the peoples in those religions would also. We do not worship an unenvolved God. We worship an active God in the lives of all who come to Him in repentance.Man has twisted at times what God was trying to do, then there are those who use religion for their own gain and they have tainted the waters of truth also. The one thing that remains constant is God's love for mankind...wishing that none should perish.
 
It is well documented that there were many different religions and belief systems throughout the world hundreds of years before the appearance of what we recognize as Christianity. The Chinese, for example were practicing their own religion long before Christianity appeared on the scene. Some of my questions about Christianity are these: Why would a loving god sentence an entire culture as non-believers based solely on the fact that due to their geographic location and language/cultural barriers, they had never been exposed to Christian doctrine? Why didn't God make himself known to the ancient Chinese as well as those in the holy land? If all men were created by the same god than we should have a Chinese bible, a Japanese bible, a Pacific island bible, etc. If the one true word was passed down from generation to generation than why would things like the crusades be necessary? Why would there have been whole cultures of people who had never heard it. We can trace Chinese history back thousands of years yet there is no history of them ever receiving the one true word and then rejecting it or turning away from it.

I consider myself a spiritual person. There have been times in my life when I have had absolutely no doubt that I have been in the presence of something far bigger and more powerful than myself. What or who that power is, that is far beyond my meager means to say and I surely would not claim that someone who doesn't believe as I do is wrong in their beliefs.
 
2054172 said:
So do you not believe that there is truth...you can not have truths if all is perceptions...
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I believe in truths. I believe in facts. I believe truth is perception. When an individual believes something, it becomes a truth to them. The same as with a group. Once upon a time people believed the world was flat. To them it was a truth, but is was not fact. There was a time when men, supported by the Chrstian Church, believed the Earth was the physical center of the universe. I do believe it has been proven as a fact that the universe does not revolve around the earth. Another truth that was not factual. Which does not mean that the earth isn't the center of the spiritual universe.

I do not and cannot believe in anything that does not consider the other side. If you'll pardon the expression, within the contexts of this discussion, I tend to play the devil's advocate whenever there is any sort of disagreement. I was taught to walk a mile in another's shoes before making judgement.

Judeo/Christians believe their God is the one true God. We tend to consider anyone who thinks otherwise as pagan, non-believers, heathens. There are other religions and beliefs have one or more gods in their pantheons. I have no doubt they would think the same of us. In their eyes we are wrong.
 
Iron Mike USMC quote- Judeo/Christians believe their God is the one true God. We tend to consider anyone who thinks otherwise as pagan, non-believers, heathens. There are other religions and beliefs have one or more gods in their pantheons. I have no doubt they would think the same of us. In their eyes we are wrong.

Firstly, 'Judeo/Christians' is an inaccurate term and they shouldn't be lumped together because Jews and Christians have absolutely zilch in common, Jews reject Jesus but Christians don't, catch mah drift?
As regards assorted other 'gods', they must be krap gods to let themselves be completely upstaged by a young carpenter..:)
Anyway most of those 'gods' are just silly bleddy statues and the bible has a right laugh at them-"Like a scarecrow in a melon patch, their idols cannot speak; they must be carried because they cannot walk. Do not fear them; they can do no harm nor can they do any good." (Jeremiah 10:5)

To those who say 'why should christianity be any more important than any other belief?', let me point out a fact they may have overlooked-
Christianity has the Son of God in it.
Islam - doesn't have the Son of God in it
Judaism - doesn't have the Son of God in it
Sikhism - doesn't have the Son of God in it
Buddhism - doesn't have the Son of God in it
Hinduism - doesn't have the Son of God in it
Spiritism - doesn't have the Son of God in it
Bahai - doesn't have the Son of God in it
Jainism - doesn't have the Son of God in it
Shinto - doesn't have the Son of God in it
Taoism - doesn't have the Son of God in it
Zoroastanism - doesn't have the Son of God in it
Paganism - doesn't have the Son of God in it
Rastafarianism - doesn't have the Son of God in it
Scientology - doesn't have the Son of God in it
Chinese traditional - doesn't have the Son of God in it
African tribal - doesn't have the Son of God in it
Cao Dai - doesn't have the Son of God in it
Tenrikyo - doesn't have the Son of God in it
New Age - doesn't have the Son of God in it
Unitarian - doesn't have the Son of God in it
Native American - doesn't have the Son of God in it
Fairy-worshipping cults etc etc - don't have the Son of God in them
 
PoorOldSpike said:
Firstly, 'Judeo/Christians' is an inaccurate term and they shouldn't be lumped together because Jews and Christians have absolutely zilch in common, Jews reject Jesus but Christians don't, catch mah drift?
As regards assorted other 'gods', they must be krap gods to let themselves be completely upstaged by a young carpenter..:)
Anyway most of those 'gods' are just silly bleddy statues and the bible has a right laugh at them-"Like a scarecrow in a melon patch, their idols cannot speak; they must be carried because they cannot walk. Do not fear them; they can do no harm nor can they do any good." (Jeremiah 10:5)
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I don't think it fair to say that Jews reject Jesus. They recognize him as a prophet but they do not believe in his divinity. A belief shared by many other religions.
 
ACSpectre said:
I don't think it fair to say that Jews reject Jesus. They recognize him as a prophet but they do not believe in his divinity. A belief shared by many other religions.
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Why don't they believe he was the Son of God?
His credentials seem pretty good to me,for a start his arrival was foretold centuries before just as he said- "All things about me in the law of Moses,the Prophets and the Psalms,must be fulfilled" (Luke 24:44)

And when he arrived he didn't skulk in some underground hideout, he travelled all over Israel for 3 long years in front of the people and the occupying Roman Army, that's a lot of eyewitnesses- “I've spoken openly to the world..I said nothing in secret" (John 18:20)
And "Large crowds from Galilee, the Ten Cities, Jerusalem, Judea and the region across the Jordan followed him" (Matt 4:25) and saw him curing illnesses, raising the dead and speaking of love and kindness and decency in an easy simple way - "And the common people heard him gladly" (Mark 12 :37), and he pulled crowds of over 4000 and 5000 at two gigs alone (Matt 15:32, Matt 14:13)

He said straight out he was the Messiah, the Christ, the Superprophet and the Son of God (John 4:26, Matt 16:17,Mark 14:62)
And God himself said - "This is my beloved son in whom I am well pleased, listen to him" (Matt 17:5)
 
PoorOldSpike said:
Why don't they believe he was the Son of God?
His credentials seem pretty good to me,for a start his arrival was foretold centuries before just as he said- "All things about me in the law of Moses,the Prophets and the Psalms,must be fulfilled" (Luke 24:44)

And when he arrived he didn't skulk in some underground hideout, he travelled all over Israel for 3 long years in front of the people and the occupying Roman Army, that's a lot of eyewitnesses- “I've spoken openly to the world..I said nothing in secret" (John 18:20)
And "Large crowds from Galilee, the Ten Cities, Jerusalem, Judea and the region across the Jordan followed him" (Matt 4:25) and saw him curing illnesses, raising the dead and speaking of love and kindness and decency in an easy simple way - "And the common people heard him gladly" (Mark 12 :37), and he pulled crowds of over 4000 and 5000 at two gigs alone (Matt 15:32, Matt 14:13)
He said straight out he was the Messiah, the Christ, the Superprophet and the Son of God (John 4:26, Matt 16:17,Mark 14:62)
And God himself said - "This is my beloved son in whom I am well pleased, listen to him" (Matt 17:5)
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I'm not Jewish so I can't say why they don't recognize his divinity. My point was only that they didn't reject him but did in fact regard him as a prophet.
 
ACSpectre said:
I'm not Jewish so I can't say why they don't recognize his divinity. My point was only that they didn't reject him but did in fact regard him as a prophet.
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Well why did they kill him?
 
PoorOldSpike said:
Well why did they kill him?
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An assertion much contested by many. Is it fair to condemn an entire group for the actions of a few. If we believe the crucifixion story, it was nothing more than a vocal mob of Jews who demanded his death. It was not an edict passed down from the leaders of the Jewish faith. And, if we are again to believe the crucifixion story, it was the Romans who committed the actual act. Judas did not betray him to the Jews, but to the Romans. His own Apostles did not even come to his defence. Peter denied him three times.
 
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