Potential Issue with CMCW

Yo playing the Meet and Greet scenario right now and I am experiencing just this. My t64A havent spotted 1/10 of the atgm blasting away at them. I have a full platoon (4 tanks) of them sitting in treeline, with full LOS, right next to each other looking down on the right side. Ive had a m150 and a m60 both drive into my LOS and hammer away at my tanks for over a turn before they realized what was happening.
Ive played plenty of CMCW pretty much entirely as the soviets and ive never experienced this level of trash. I have had two bmp1 get atgm'd through multiple pine trees twice now though.
I will capture all of this, it's pretty ridiculous imo.
And dont even get me started on the soviet atgm carriers they are so broken in every single game it is not even funny!
 
Artkin said:
Yo playing the Meet and Greet scenario right now and I am experiencing just this. My t64A havent spotted 1/10 of the atgm blasting away at them. I have a full platoon (4 tanks) of them sitting in treeline, with full LOS, right next to each other looking down on the right side. Ive had a m150 and a m60 both drive into my LOS and hammer away at my tanks for over a turn before they realized what was happening.
Ive played plenty of CMCW pretty much entirely as the soviets and ive never experienced this level of trash. I have had two bmp1 get atgm'd through multiple pine trees twice now though.
I will capture all of this, it's pretty ridiculous imo.
And dont even get me started on the soviet atgm carriers they are so broken in every single game it is not even funny
Click to expand...
As an interesting note on the BMPs as your opponent I spotted the BMPs with an M150 but even with the target command it would say that it couldn't engage even though it had the spot however I used Dragon teams who have been able to engage once having spotted the BMPs.
 
It makes sense the dragons thermals might be able to see it, but definitely not engage. The first kill was more understandable, but the second flew through a ton of trees
 
I did used five missiles to kill them but one flew straight into the ground like 100m from my own team.
 
Artkin said:
It makes sense the dragons thermals might be able to see it, but definitely not engage. The first kill was more understandable, but the second flew through a ton of trees
Click to expand...
Misses only hit the trunks of trees but I Didn't look close enough to see if it should have hit any
 
We start with this guy a few turns back. All of my optics at this point are unharmed.

T64A #1.... Moving to contact

CM-Cold-War-2021-10-12-14-55-15-73.png



M60 fires at T64 #1, very close miss, t64 oblivious for over 20 seconds of visibility
CM-Cold-War-2021-10-12-14-56-30-67.png



Nothing..
CM-Cold-War-2021-10-12-14-56-03-12.png



The LOS:
CM-Cold-War-2021-10-12-15-05-23-47.png



That's a Veteran T64A btw. That crew is experienced in combat. Can't you tell?

T64A #2: Moves into position:
CM-Cold-War-2021-10-12-14-57-07-84.png



Twelve seconds and a TOW launch later, absolutely nothing.
CM-Cold-War-2021-10-12-14-57-16-07.png



The LOS, after sixteen seconds:
CM-Cold-War-2021-10-12-15-06-00-18.png



Another "Veteran":
CM-Cold-War-2021-10-12-15-06-30-09.png



T64B #1: Moves into position
CM-Cold-War-2021-10-12-14-59-10-58.png



CM-Cold-War-2021-10-12-14-59-43-03.png



The LOS for the "Veteran":
CM-Cold-War-2021-10-12-15-07-35-95.png



CM-Cold-War-2021-10-12-15-08-40-57.png



Shturm #1: Arrives on scene
CM-Cold-War-2021-10-12-15-01-08-59.png



Over 40 seconds later and still nothing:
CM-Cold-War-2021-10-12-15-01-36-67.png



The LOS:
CM-Cold-War-2021-10-12-15-08-57-51.png



CM-Cold-War-2021-10-12-15-09-15-99.png



Shturm #2:
CM-Cold-War-2021-10-12-15-02-07-17.png



CM-Cold-War-2021-10-12-15-02-17-58.png



CM-Cold-War-2021-10-12-15-02-36-00.png



The LOS:
CM-Cold-War-2021-10-12-15-09-40-53.png



CM-Cold-War-2021-10-12-15-09-45-91.png



Another Veteran and a Regular.

This entire time TOW after TOW are being launched totally undetected. Not to mention I have troops alongside all of mine, everyone is in perfect C2. Infantry from the very same formation have been spotting for the Shturms the whole time, ten meters away.

You have got to be kidding me. I have never had such a poor experience with the Soviets. What is going on here? This is just one turn... it prompted me to make this post after five or six more turns of this. I will go on...
 
The next turn:

T64A #3: Totally oblivious to everything in front of it despite being able to see comfortably over field.
CM-Cold-War-2021-10-12-16-18-06-03.png



I had the vehicle on "fast", issued a stop, then a reverse command. At :58 the tank was fully halted, BUT then changed direction of front hull toward target indicating that it saw something dangerous. So it kinda saw something. But not really.
CM-Cold-War-2021-10-12-16-17-05-75.png



CM-Cold-War-2021-10-12-16-19-08-95.png



"Open up" order issued, as tank reverses. Still sees jack shit.
CM-Cold-War-2021-10-12-16-19-31-61.png



Also issued a pause since I was hoping it would maybe attack something.
CM-Cold-War-2021-10-12-16-17-11-35.png



CM-Cold-War-2021-10-12-16-20-51-98.png



25 seconds later and still nothing....
CM-Cold-War-2021-10-12-16-17-26-63.png



Then T64A #3 was killed to from the side. From targets that should have been suppressed by the rest of my blind ass units.


T64B #1 again, this tank is totally and completely useless. Still in the same spot from last turn:
CM-Cold-War-2021-10-12-16-24-55-11.png



Scooting up two meters or so:
CM-Cold-War-2021-10-12-16-24-31-13.png



By turns end:
CM-Cold-War-2021-10-12-16-27-25-12.png



CM-Cold-War-2021-10-12-16-27-38-68.png



Shturm #1 scoots up yet again...
(Shturm #2 dies at the start of the turn, never seeing a thing)
CM-Cold-War-2021-10-12-16-23-17-91.png



Faceview:
CM-Cold-War-2021-10-12-16-23-10-07.png



40 seconds of jerking off later:
CM-Cold-War-2021-10-12-16-23-53-28.png



60...
CM-Cold-War-2021-10-12-16-24-00-78.png



(Blocked by smoke, but the M150 already saw my vehicle obviously... after slowly scooting up turn by turn, and after 2+minutes of direct overwatch)
CM-Cold-War-2021-10-12-16-25-48-64.png



Still nothing over here too. Neither vehicle has moved.
CM-Cold-War-2021-10-12-16-25-57-58.png


WTF?
Again, this is just 1/3 of the circus.
 
I think part of what's going on here might have to do with the crops. I've also seen spotting problems where vehicles are hull down behind wheat fields.

If I had to guess, I think it might be because the game engine draws an LOS line to the centre of mass of the part of the vehicle exposed over the hill, and if this line passes through several squares of tall crops, the game thinks the vehicle is extremely well hidden, even though there's a whole turret poking up over the crops.
 
if it sees it as a line of sight through crops, I know for a fact that the game blocks line of sight after 4 hexes.

I learned that with wheat fields anyway. 5 back and you are hidden to the world, slide one up and you can possible fire out.
 
But my vehicles were recieving fire from the enemies they were supposed to be spotting. And some of my units (Like the ATGM carriers) got in position significantly earlier than when my opponents did (Which was DIRECTLY where ALL of my troops were facing).

It isn't only limited to the wheatfields, this dilemma seems to affect all of my troops.
This is so stupid! I had a good plan and it was totally ruined!
 
Your opponent might have just played a good scouting game, with some unlucky stuff on your side on top of the crop fields. Imo the height of crop fields or underbrush in trees isn't always exactly like on screen. Also in general CMCW US forces have better optics so better spotters.

Good advice could be to just suck it up and return the favor next time! :)
 
As for scouting my tank destroyer platoon commander had spots on most every vehicle I've engaged with the M-150s prior to moving them up to engage and they do a good job of backing away on there own after firing.
 
You do have a logical complaint, you should have had the advantage, the game spotting has screwed you.

But you now have learned the limitations of the game.

I would suggest, next time dont try to sit in what you think is a perfect position and wait on the enemy.

I have found it better in game situations to hold my units back from the crest out of sight and have just a spotter or two forward to let me know when the enemy is exposed. Then I roll them forward with the hunt command and hope they spot and stop with hopefully some of the crest protecting them. but if not, at least I know they will roll up and fire when they can spot. That way I have all my units engaged. I rather have my units all engaged, instead of having what happened in your situation.
 
Car88 said:
As for scouting my tank destroyer platoon commander had spots on most every vehicle I've engaged with the M-150s prior to moving them up to engage and they do a good job of backing away on there own after firing.
Click to expand...

That will help them spot quite a bit, as he will relay the info trough c2 and give them tentative contacts.
 
Idk how to quote on this website. Oh well.
You will see how I play sly, but the soviets do best when the enemies come to them. Well any force really but especially true with the soviets. I already tried moving troops twice into the LOS of the enemy. Even more so in the following turns. This scenario feels broken in comparison to what I am used to.

The original complaint about the tank platoon missing targets that they were keyholed to fight hasnt even come up yet.
 
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This is so stupid! I had a good plan and it was totally ruined!

-- Napoleon at Waterloo.
-- Also, Rommel at El Alamein.
-- Also, Lee at Gettysburg.
-- Also, Hannibal at Zama.
 
Lmao! I understand, but I like winning and try to make choices that get me there. Truth be told many of my units were in keyholed positions with good (blue) lines of sight, and my guys all got blasted, some of which didnt even get a partial contact
 
We all have been there with this game, it does not always reward you for doing the correct thing. And the last time I checked, pretty much everyone likes to play to win.

But this game at times reflects real life more than we think in that it is not fair and it does not care when we get the wrong end of the deal. So it comes down to how we handle it when things dont go our way.

So blow off some steam, complain about how the game works and so forth. But then its time to move on.

How the game spots and works has had many years of tweeking and it is what it is. No major change is coming to the present engine.

We can hope when a new engine does come, they have a new method as to how these features function and we get something even more realistic.
 
It'd be different if it was a nice big map where I had room to maneuver and make my choices. Instead BFC likes making scenarios where the replay-ability lies in moving a t64 two action spots over for the next game. These maps are so small they give you next to nowhere to put your troops. Everything is highly predictable.

The Shturm atgm carriers feel straight up broken.

And Abbasid we would know if you ever returned the turn I sent you!
 
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