The FGM Ladder for 2016

Do you like Ithikial's idea for the FGM CM Ladder?

  • Yes

  • No

Results are only viewable after voting.
All of the suggestions are great. I do believe that a strong ladder for the club to have is a good thing. The main thing I used to enjoy @ the blitz (sorry Bootie) was the ladder. I for one stopped posting to the ladder because at one time it seemed very involved and it wasn't that big of a deal to record. So I eventually stopped.

But for some folks the ladder is a big deal. And can be a big reason for some peoples involvement in the club. Just my 2 cents worth.

I for one intend to get back into the ladder for 2016 and am excited that you guys are tweaking it and making it more detailed.
 
I would also like to offer my opinion.

A little bit of background:
I'm a member of the FGM mainly for two reasons: Campaigns and Tournaments. There are always some of these happening, thanks to the great guys willing to organise and run them. Cheers :cheers:

I'm also a member of the Blitz, for one reason: The ladder. Not so much the competitive aspects (as has been said, CMx2 is way too unbalanced between its various flavours - QBs and scenarios), but for the record keeping aspect. The ladder at the Blitz is working really well and has all the features I would want from a system like this, i.e. full record-keeping, a database of scenarios, different ways of ranking the players in the ladder - points, ELO, games played, winning streaks - to name most of them.
The Blitz is at the same time rubbish for tournaments and campaigns.

In my opinion, the FGM for CMx2 is about its core strength, as I have said: Campaigns and Tournaments. We can't compete in any feasible way with the fully established ladder system like the Blitz is running, unless it would implemented in a similar way. Until then, it would always fall short in my view. Resources (time, money) should not be expended on a second-best solution. Might sound harsh, but it is my firm opinion.

Also, the CMx2 community is quite small as it is, I never understood why there should be different places to run ladders, thereby fragmenting an already small community even more.

To solve this, my ideal (maybe not realistic) solution would be:

Contact the Blitz staff to find out if some additional tagging could be included in their ladder system. It could be a check-box for players to say that they are also members of the FGM. This tag could then be used in a way similar to what they are doing for their yearly ladders, i.e. to create a ladder view of FGM-only members. This way, we could have a club ladder and also contribute to a larger database.
I don't know if something like this is possible, but it might be worth to ask and see if they are open to it.
 
Haven't voted yet.

Ithikial, what you propose is certainly better than what we currently have, IMO. Five games seems small to me though. How about ten, with a provision that any game between FGM members (casual, tournament, whatever) is subject to being reported as a Ladder game by the winner?

I still would like to see no points awarded for the loser, or, even better, negative points for losing.

@Mad Mike Nice sentiment, but I don't see that realistically happening anytime soon (Re: The Blitz/FGM).

Also, depending on how this year plays out....I love the idea of a yearly "Crazy 8" Ladder tourney in December.
 
So, I'm new here and a junior officer at theBlitz for full disclosure. Therefore I will not vote this year on your ladder proposal this year.

When I was looking for a ladder I chose theBlitz because it had an ELO scoring system. The issue I had and still have even with your new plan is that a weaker player who manages a draw against a strong player is not rewarded well. I wanted to find strong players and play against them to get better and when I finally managed a draw I wanted it to count. That was my reason for joining the blitz and not here back when I started being more serious about games (just playing I'm not serious in general :). Under your system I would look like a weak player because I spend my time playing against the strongest players and get may butt handed to my a lot so my win percentage is not that good. But using an ELO system I do just fine because when I win I gain more points than when I loose. Mind you under your system I probably would not be able to tell who the stronger players were :)

I really don't like "he who plays the most wins" - and we still recognize "he who plays the most wins" on the blitz too I just never look at the ladder any other way than sorted by ELO. What you are proposing is much better than what you had but it still suffers from weaker players not being recognized enough for managing a draw against a stronger player.

Now if Volksgrenadier has a proposal for a modified ELO system that helps with unbalanced scenarios that would be really really cool. I would say jump at the chance. Go for it. That might even get me to play ladder games here. :)

Just 2cents from a new guys that might not really fit in here in the end...
 
I like the fact that the ladder system here is EVOLVING slowly.

As many of the contributors have pointed out the current system is NOT PERFECT (o_O), however this site isn't (just) about the Ladder! I like this site because it is about PLAYING Combat Mission (and PC wargaming in general), not JUST competitive gaming. The tournaments are cracking fun, many of the threads are interesting, but FUN-FILLED and wander around deliciously.

Many here would not like the ladder to become focused on reflecting the players ability, nor should it become (IMNSHO) a directory of all games played. Such focus would promote more players dropping out of competitive games when losing - discourage them from playing in tournaments (as such scenarios tend to be unbalanced more often than not) and encourage gamey :mad: tactics or force selections. All things that would discourage many players from playing. :(

OTOH I do support the idea of trying new layouts/scoring systems that still encourage reporting of hugely unbalanced campaign scenarios and carefully balanced scenarios or QB's. just lets be sure to proceed with caution, quick change can annoy many (not to mention significantly increasing workload and stress on the sysadmin)

Personally I am a member on the BF Forums, the Blitz and here. I peruse all 3 sites for different reasons (in short: BF Forums for info, here for sanity :confused: and the Blitz for games), whenever possible I report game results to both ladders and generally us eth ladders as a way of keeping track of how many games I have played rather than for any other reason.



ARRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH Been serious/logical for too long, need to run around the estate naked or something now to keep the sanity at bay :) see you all.
 
@CanadianCat
Do you think the admins @The Blitz could be interested in such a system? In this case I could register and we could discuss it there.
Btw it could be exclusive for them, because I had redrawn my consent for FGM to use my system after they had shown no interest in it anyway...
 
Volksgrenadier said:
@CanadianCat
Do you think the admins @The Blitz could be interested in such a system? In this case I could register and we could discuss it there.
Btw it could be exclusive for them, because I had redrawn my consent for FGM to use my system after they had shown no interest in it anyway...
Click to expand...
Hey @Volksgrenadier ,
It might be cause the ladder custodian @Ithikial didnt read your post.
If you want to be sure that someone has read your post tag him or send him a pm.
You can tag someone by typing @ plus his exact nickname (by typing the 3 first letters of the nick name
you ll have a dropdown menu with all the available nicks included on these 3 first letters).
 
Volksgrenadier said:
@CanadianCat
Do you think the admins @The Blitz could be interested in such a system? In this case I could register and we could discuss it there.
Btw it could be exclusive for them, because I had redrawn my consent for FGM to use my system after they had shown no interest in it anyway...
Click to expand...

I would be so that's one. Mind you I am low man on the totem pole but I am interested. If you sign up I'll introduce you if you like I'll PM you my email so we can discuss off line first it you like.
 
Said it before but just so it's clear, here it is again.

FGM has always been about being that little bit more casual than others and that thought has flown through to the ladder system. The last thing I want to do is run a system so complex that the average member has no idea about how it works. This means a tirade of questions at me, Bootie or the club in general every time something changes. KISS: Keep It Simple Stupid - is a great principal to live by.

Remember it's just a hobby. If you want a 'die hard' competitive system that's trying to account for all the variables possible inside a CMx2 game, and enough members share your views, then by all means get together and put the proposal to the Boss. He can then sack me and you can take over. :)
 
Ah, it is not my intention to have anyone sacked. Like I said I am new here and I am not even going to vote. Plus I am perfectly willing to go with the flow.

I have to say that an ELO scoring system does not generate a tone of questions and it is understandable. KISS is fine, good actually right up until it violates the keep it simple but no simpler principal. Ranking a ladder by who plays the most is too simple. I think it is good that you are proposing to try something better.

This year's proposal will no doubt be your best ladder yet.
 
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