Turn 2: Day 1 Morning

[Strachwitz]

All very good considerations. I will dive right into the mastermap tonight and have a fresh look at it from the ground level and make some screenshots. Then we can have a look at the actual "possible" battlefield and move on from there.
Generally I don`t think they are going to attack anywhere. They should be too weak to do that.

 

[Ithikial]

All good Strachwitz. The OOB error has been fixed.
- I can inform you that in the campaign tile E6 there is one additional unknown infantry contact.
- No other changes.

Remember when reviewing the maps you look at the 'updated' versions with your handiwork from last turn. (Check dropbox for new 'Master' map).

 

[Strachwitz]

Thanks for the maps and the work you had put in @Ithikial . Must have been quite some work editing all the artillery craters and destroyed buildings.
Have you noticed my question/problem report regarding some units on the campaign map?

 

[Ithikial]

The I11 issue? Yeah you swept the Germans from the field and I couldn't access the end game files because of the 26% bug. I assumed it was a full advance. Same for the north battle.

Nothing stopping you from moving them back in regular movement if you so wish.

 

[Strachwitz]

Now I remember. The 26% bug screwed us up. I would, if I could . Moving back I mean. But I can`t as we are in an enemy zone of control right now. And we shouldn`t be there...:shocknaz:

 

[Strachwitz]

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VIEW 1

VIEW 2

So, I went down to grunt level and a bit above. This pictures illustrates the problem quite well. Units placed in I11 could be attacked from nearly 3 directions. A village, wooded area in H10, a small patch and depressions in I 10 and directly adjacent to us in J11.
There is a depression in I 11 and generally the land is rising towards I10/H10 but especially tanks would be very vulnerable. Plus the small path of woods in I11 are not only woods there is also at least half of it swamp/marsh making it more smaller.

Maybe we just place our Tankodesky Platoon in I11 for overwatch and a basic defense with the backups of AT-Guns, Heavy Weapons and Tanks back at G12....

 

[PhilM]

The I11 issue? Yeah you swept the Germans from the field and I couldn't access the end game files because of the 26% bug. I assumed it was a full advance. Same for the north battle.

Nothing stopping you from moving them back in regular movement if you so wish.

It's all a bit historical now, but I'm not sure why the 26% load bug is an issue here specifically? Because our game went forward quickly, and the Axis surrendered (IIRC?) to pull out the remainder of their forces, this battle was finished fully before the 26% bug became an issue, and didn't affect this game? It finished "normally" without the bug.

And, though it is difficult now to recall *exactly*, I only ever sent a smaller proportion of my guys across the river, most were left on "our" side ... and those that did go across never even got as far as reaching the wooded hill before the surrender.

So, if the position on the ground now is supposed to represent the actual positions reached rather than abstract VLs, a good proportion of my guys should still be in the woods on our side where we started and not in I11 / nor in contact with the current Axis forces ... if that makes any difference!

If it is important, I can try to remember / reconstruct who was where by the end ...

 

[Strachwitz]

The more I am thinking about it , it really would be strategically important to get hold off squares J10, I10, H10 as soon as possible. It would tie down enemy units away from our main axis of advance and we could secure our left flank to a even repel a bigger counter-attack some turns later. Interesting target hexes and am really thinking hard about how this is best accomplished.
@PhilM: thanks for your considerations! Without it I wouldn't think of this part of the front as much as it is definitely needed!

 

[Strachwitz]

It's all a bit historical now, but I'm not sure why the 26% load bug is an issue here specifically? Because our game went forward quickly, and the Axis surrendered (IIRC?) to pull out the remainder of their forces, this battle was finished fully before the 26% bug became an issue, and didn't affect this game? It finished "normally" without the bug.

And, though it is difficult now to recall *exactly*, I only ever sent a smaller proportion of my guys across the river, most were left on "our" side ... and those that did go across never even got as far as reaching the wooded hill before the surrender.

So, if the position on the ground now is supposed to represent the actual positions reached rather than abstract VLs, a good proportion of my guys should still be in the woods on our side where we started and not in I11 / nor in contact with the current Axis forces ... if that makes any difference!

If it is important, I can try to remember / reconstruct who was where by the end ...

Yes the 26% happened way after you finished the battle but by the time we really had to review the outcome of the battles nobody could open the old files.

After that I should have been a bit more careful getting the full picture anddefinitely more active on helping @Ithikial . I am really sorry for that but RL took its toll. Sure that was my bad!

The first turn generally had its share of starting problems but I am sure from now we are making great progress!

 

[Ithikial]

No foul, real life here to. I'm building a house!

GM tip (Axis got one a couple of days ago) - As for the ZOC. Both sides need to place move orders and order attacks. You can order your troops to disengage. If the enemy sits still or launches an attack then you're in trouble (will need to retreat in battle). If the enemy pulls back this will free up your forces for any planned movements. Movements occur 'at the same time' on the campaign map.

 

[Strachwitz]

That`s good news. At least part of. All our forces sitting in I11 in open field in broad daylight and enemy units from 3 directions is definitely not a situation I would like to be. Nor was it intended. Are there any chances to straigthen this out and moving the units besides one back to their starting location? Should I ask Odin if this is a problem?

 

[PhilM]

Just in case it is useful to the debate over final / starting positions, my "final map view" pic in post 58 in my "battle 3" thread shows the final positions my units reached ...

 

[Ithikial]

Just in case it is useful to the debate over final / starting positions, my "final map view" pic in post 58 in my "battle 3" thread shows the final positions my units reached ...

Don't necessarily have the same level of detail on the Axis side. Just trying to be consistent as much as possible for both sides.

 

[Ithikial]

Guys just FYI slight alteration. Your men spot an additional unknown infantry contact in Campaign Square E6. No movement orders received from either side so this unit could move prior to battles being declared etc.

@Strachwitz - OOB fix on the Axis side.

 

[Strachwitz]

What had to be fixed? Or do you mean the unit position changes on the strategical map as requested by me?
I was just waiting on an answer if my proposed changes can be made. After that unit movements wil be made quite fast. We discussed what had to be discussed and the final movement orders can be processed after I know where my units are ;-)

 

[Ithikial]

Can't say anything more without breaking FOW.

In terms of Phil's battle in the south, I take the point but there were some forces across the creek bed at the end of the battle. What formations and how much of said formations I have no idea since I couldn't access the PBEM file. Some level of Soviet force has to remain on that side of the creek to reflect how the battle ended.

 

[Strachwitz]

We are running around in circles I am afraid. Sure there have to stay some forces there. But not all. I don`t want to bug you but we need to find a suitable solution. As it is now, according to the rules we can`t move these exposed units as they are adjacent to enemy units. And the enemy also isn`t allowed to move them. So all these units are stuck and are forced to have a battle in order to free their movement. At least that`s how I interpret the rules.
I really don`t want to annoy you but I can`t say more. As it is now we will get slaughtered in the open. And that`s not a good road the campaign is going. I should have adressed this earlier but I havent recognized the error. This is not to blame you. The 26% bug is to blame as it caused all the trouble. For now I really don`t know how to solve this other then setting the units to a hex where they belong to. I already wrote I can help you figuring out the outcome of the last battle to get the strategical map right. For now it is simply wrong.

And again @Ithikial this is really not meant to annoy you. Although I am surte it does. I hope you don`t take it personal. You have taken over the burden (and in this case truely it is) of beeing the gamemaster and unfortunately the campaign suffer from some problems of an untested "campaign mode". I am very sorry for causing this trouble. We made quite some big compromises to get the first battles rolling. But I simply can`t let this error dictate the outcome of the next round. For that, the error is simply too big. In my view at least. And setting the units back and leaving maybe one in place doesn`t spoil FOW as this unit would have seen all enemy units also.

 

[Ithikial]

If @PhilM can identify the units that crossed the creek I'll move the remaining tokens back across to the eastern side and out of the swamp.

Also keep in mind, at least in my interpretation of the rules when Odin and I were writing them is that if both sides opt to head in opposite directions it wouldn't trigger anything. If the Germans decide to launch an attack however then you are stuck. The campaign was meant to simulate a rolling operation over a short time frame. So where your units end up at the end of the battle is just as important as killing the enemy and completing the objective. Something to keep in mind for future turns. That Church tower may be tempting to take and hold but you only have one company of infantry available to get it done. Do you really want to leave them exposed and unsupported all for the sake of occupying a church/village?

Strachwitz, no foul mate. After 8 years of working at a McDonalds store while I was a student, it takes a hell of lot to ruffle my feathers.

 

[PhilM]

If @PhilM can identify the units that crossed the creek I'll move the remaining tokens back across to the eastern side and out of the swamp.

Sorry to be a pain @Strachwitz , but ... I'm happy to try and do the identifying using my "battle end map pic" (as posted in my battle 3 thread) ... but (it was last September!!) ...

Do you have anywhere (apologies if it is already in our dropbox, just wasn't sure what to look for) my unit / force composition list from the start of my battle 3, to allow me to specify accurately which units I'm identifying as "over the creek"?

You can tell from the pic that all mortars, A/T guns, HQs, Observers, lorried transports and most of the MG teams, plus Engineers (?) stayed almost in their original locations, plus 1 Su 122 (152?) stayed on this side of the creek.

Two of the Su's and a couple of platoons (??) of infantry on foot crossed over, I think - but could get a better list if I could be reminded exactly what I started with ...

 

[Strachwitz]

Oh, I missed the last posts. Sorry for that. I think it is not necessary to put so much work into this. I will review the last end screens of @PhilM and @Nathangun and send @Ithikial my "proposal" how it should look like. Actually I am doing it right now. After that we hopefully make progress and advance to the battle of turn 2.