BF's announcement of 'Bulge' title, is it just me...

[Ithikial]

I'm looking forward to it and I don't begrudge BFC a dime that I have given them since the release of CMBO.

Same. CMRT probably had a little too few scenarios for my liking but wasn't a deal breaker or cause for a major rant. If you're not a fan of what they have planned wait until a module comes out and buy a bundle.

Speaking of modules I hope this is the last base game they release for a while and get to modules/packs for the existing titles. CMRT and CMBS especially really need some variety.

 

[Odin]

I'm looking forward to it and I don't begrudge BFC a dime that I have given them since the release of CMBO.

Neither have I up until now. Bulge may well be the first time though unless there is a lot more to be included than what ChrisND listed.

 

[kohlenklau]

I sincerely hope the game is a worthwhile purchase for you Owen.

My latest thread at BFC forums is my attempt to "set the bar high" for the quality of and extent of the features I most personally desire to see delivered. I will use it as my yardstick to measure the game after release.

http://community.battlefront.com/topic/119945-bulge-thread-part-deux/

They do sort of have me by the nuts though. Because the Battle of the Bulge is my absolute favorite WW2 military subject. Sure, I know it is not everybody's favorite. The combination of the winter, the desperation of the axis plan, the race-like nature of the armored spearheads, the similarly desperate defense....

But if it was some other part of the war, say BFC tried to sell Market-Garden as an entirely separate family. Well, it would indeed set off the red flags. Maybe BFC is like the small town family restaurant that as they grow to be a chain on a regional or national level, some of that hometown feel slips away as the accountants and investors take on a bigger voice?

 

[Odin]

Good stuff Phil, looks like you're handy with the old photosho. Lets hope BF create plenty of new stuff for you to turn your modding skills to.

 

[Earl of Grey]

I wouldn't get my hopes up too high - still only a handful of people working on the thing (including more or less only ONE graphics artist). So the general quality will very likely not be different from what we have alread seen in the other games.

The main reason for making Bulge a standalone game was that in late fall 1944 a lot of new equipment showed up and OOBs changed drastically for some if not most formations. Plus the game centers around combat during winter and on snow terrain almost exclusively. Given the policy of rather putting less into one base game/module/pack than have the customer wait another two years because a pretty small team can only get things done so fast I can understand why Bulge became it's own game.

Agreed, those screens didn't do any good - quite the opposite. And I still dislike some things in general about the new CM and a couple things about the Bulge title in it's current state (whichobviosuly is't finished yet). Yes, I have access to it because I'm one of those beta testers and I did/do a little texturing on those games.
What I can say is that they're thinking of ways how to improve the game but sometimes it just doesn't quite work out the way they want and it usually doesn't go as fast as planned. Either way I'd say it's too early to judge. I can only guess how the final product will look and I know there'll be plenty room for improvements but modders want to have something to do as well, right?

 

[kohlenklau]

I appreciate the cold frosty breath of reality.

 

[Volksgrenadier]

What I can say is that they're thinking of ways how to improve the game but sometimes it just doesn't quite work out the way they want and it usually doesn't go as fast as planned. Either way I'd say it's too early to judge. I can only guess how the final product will look and I know there'll be plenty room for improvements

Earl of Grey,

I appreciate your comment, but there are several things I don't understand:
Back in March(!) it was stated from BFC on their forum, that Bulge is more or less done, because it was done parallel to BS.
And secondly as a MSc in Electrical and Computer Engineering, I have a hard time to believe this incredible snail speed of the engine's development.
Bulge is only textures and CAD-models and OOB, not programming - I am wondering, what are the TWO FULL TIME PROGRAMMERS doing all day? How is it possible, that a game is more or less finished in March, and three months later there is still ZERO progress on engine development?

14 months after RT has been released means 14 months after engine improvements. And since Bulge according to their words, will not show engine improvements, I guess we probably will easily reach two years.

 

[Earl of Grey]

Back in March(!) it was stated from BFC on their forum, that Bulge is more or less done, because it was done parallel to BS.
And secondly as a MSc in Electrical and Computer Engineering, I have a hard time to believe this incredible snail speed of the engine's development.

I think that was the original plan and most lilely a... um... SLIGHT exaggeration of the state of things. Plus I believe the chief programmer is working on mutiple projects at the same time, fixes, improvements etc. And since you're a programmer you know what it means to have, say, six or seven different things to finish up at the same time. Add the possibility that a solution doesn't quite work out the way you intend it to, new or old bugs appearing...

Bulge is only textures and CAD-models and OOB, not programming - I am wondering, what are the TWO FULL TIME PROGRAMMERS doing all day? How is it possible, that a game is more or less finished in March, and three months later there is still ZERO progress on engine development?

Thing is there are things happening behind closed doors that complicated everything. Couple that with Steve's tendency to see things quite a bit too optimistic most of the time and you see the direction where we're headed...
And lest I forget: That thread and feedback from some testers actually IS the cause for an engine improvement - but it isn#t working properly. BFC is reluctant to reveal new stuff unless they work properly which is the reason you hear and see practically nothing.

I know my answers aren't very satisfying, but techniclly I'm under an NDA and can only tell you so much. But believe me when is ay there's probably no one mroe frustrated than me when I think what could be possible, what the current state is and how long it usually takes to get things done...

 

[Odin]

Earl of Grey I'm sure I'm not the only one on here who appreciates you giving your insight into how things are developing. It's good to hear some news on the game's progress, and it's nice to know BF listen to some of the forum feedback even if the outcomes aren't what we hope for. I do though hope for the longevity of CM that they manage to implement some ideas put forward by beta testers and BF forum users.

 

[enven]

*Short Rant (again)*:

• The engine has a lot of bugs still (CMx2) - I am addicted to CM though and will not falter that.
• I want this as a supplement purchase 10 bucks is fair to me since we're being screwed here.
• Marketing aside they are twisting every grognard/ww2 gamers arm to break it out by years instead of theaters of operation, as they did before. Its a petty way of operating a business to gain more money on addicts like us.
• Will I probably buy it, I will concede and just say yes because I am a bitter addict and at some point will break down...Whether its weeks months or a year...It will eventually happen.
• Being that I worked in the gaming industry before...for a couple years as a dev/ops engineer (And never in my life do that again)...I know how these guys lie and port over functionality...one cp at a time. If they can polish a turd over and over then pitch it whichever way they can, and we buy it...they'll keep chugging doing it until the well is all dried up.

 

[Earl of Grey]

No argument here. Although BFC said that it made sense to split because of the massive changes I equipment and OOBs (see above) and that they simply can't - or won't - deliver the same scope of the old CMx1 games.

Technically speaking it makes sense since it takes MUCH more time for the same small team to get things done. And you see how long we have to wait even for a single module.
If it's technical reasons or just a deliberate attempt at squeezing more money out of the addicted gamers... I can't say. My guess is that BFC's estimates are (and have been) overly optimistic and left little or no room for holdups or complications of any sort.

 

[Blind Sniper]

Will I probably buy it, I will concede and just say yes because I am a bitter addict and at some point will break down...Whether its weeks months or a year...It will eventually happen.

When I saw the first DLCs come out I immediately thought, here something will change!
(I don't know who was the "precursor" but I remember Paradox).

Now the market is definitely changed, the patches are not sold as expansions/DLCs yet but we are pretty close (I guess will be only bug fixes), if the companies are more greedy or is the business system that force them I don't know, surely it will not change in better for customers.

Therefore if you want to play more recent games (not only CM) you have to pay and you will not break because there are not other ways, you can hope in platforms like Steam or bundle when the games will be old but for little SH like BF the price will decrease only after many years.
Sooner or later you will buy the next new game

Yes I know, I'm not optimistic about that

 

[enven]

No argument here. Although BFC said that it made sense to split because of the massive changes I equipment and OOBs (see above) and that they simply can't - or won't - deliver the same scope of the old CMx1 games.

Technically speaking it makes sense since it takes MUCH more time for the same small team to get things done. And you see how long we have to wait even for a single module.
If it's technical reasons or just a deliberate attempt at squeezing more money out of the addicted gamers... I can't say. My guess is that BFC's estimates are (and have been) overly optimistic and left little or no room for holdups or complications of any sort.

"Technically speaking it makes sense..." No, it makes zero sense...Whats the technical aspect issue here? Please elaborate.
Sounds like bfc is full of red herrings and lack of project management/experience.

But yeah; I am fine with waiting on a complete product with stock battles and campaigns instead of the "lets give the grog' a taste and let the community build on it..." mentality.

I guess its ok to excuse them though...

 

[Earl of Grey]

No, it makes zero sense...Whats the technical aspect issue here? Please elaborate.
Sounds like bfc is full of red herrings and lack of project management/experience.

Maybe. What I meant was that the workload increased a lot (from what I have seen) but the team size more or less stayed the same. And if I recall correctly Steve said they had to reduce scope and content to make it feasible releasing something every half year (please don't quote me on that, I'm not 100% sure, just what I remember reading). Is that a logical step? or am I wrong because I'm no expert?
He also said that the old CMx1 business model of giving almost everything and even more to the buyer is a doomed business model and that no other developer would release a game with so much content in it (he referred to the old CMx1 games). May be true, may not be true and probably is a false assumption on his part since there's no game offering the same scope CM does. In the end it might indeed be just a ploy to get as much money out of us as is possible - I don't know. I'm just lucky to be a beta tester, that's all. Information from the internal development cycle usually isn't shared.

But yeah; I am fine with waiting on a complete product with stock battles and campaigns instead of the "lets give the grog' a taste and let the community build on it..." mentality.

Not quite sure what you mean actually.

I guess its ok to excuse them though...

Now that is exactly NOT what I wanted to do. I'm just trying to see both sides of an argument and sharing what little inside information I can share. Maybe my deductions are wrong?

 

[Bootie]

What exactly does a beta tester do....?

Most CM's so far seem to have come out with quite a few flaws in them.

Do you think there are free loaders there who just want a shot at the game before everyone else.

 

[Ithikial]

 

[Earl of Grey]

What does a beta tester do... Well, a beta tester gets the most actual build of the game and then gives it a proper beating to see if everything works as intended: 3D models, general features, the editor, animations, unit behavior etc. If everything goes smoothly there aren't any game-breaking bugs and everything works like a charm.

The flaws... There is a pretty limited amount of beta testers and some things simply slip through the net because you can't possibly cover every situation that might occur during gameplay. The bigger the number of people actually playing, the bigger the chance certain flaws and/or bugs become obvious. That's the reason even AAA titles need patches - because with a limited amount of time and a limited amount of testers not every angle can be covered.
Although I think you refer more to certain things not quite working the way we players want it to. Weeell... I can give you a REALLY long list of answers Steve gives to people every time they complain about something. "Not feasible", "too time-consuming", "not necessary", "planned for a later date" are the most common ones. Maybe the game is in exactly the state he wants it to be. Maybe it is in a pretty sorry state actually but he can't do better with the resources at hand. I don't know.

And: Yes, there certainly are some that simply want to get a shot at the game before everyone else.

 

[Floki]

I'm a NOOB to the CM series so just kinda lurked and let more experienced players comment. Here is my 2 cents. I have the full CMBN (but not the VP) and I have Red Thunder. Those two titles are keeping me busy but I must say Red Thunder is getting boring! I still haven't even looked at CMFI yet and all that it has.

What I'm saying is that I won't be buying The Bulge anytime soon BUT if it were sold under the CMBN umbrella as a module (whatever the price) I would probably buy it so I could use all the new toys in QB's.

Marketing wise I think it's an easier sell as a module even if there is a price increase.

Just the 2 cents of a new buyer/player.

 

[Bootie]

So basically you play the game to see if it works and if something is wrong you report it to someone who can actually fix it.
Damn ... thats easy... some of the BETA testers make it sound like they actually fix the game when in effect they are only monkeys and not organ grinders.

 

[DasTiger]

So basically you play the game to see if it works and if something is wrong you report it to someone who can actually fix it.
Damn ... thats easy... some of the BETA testers make it sound like they actually fix the game when in effect they are only monkeys and not organ grinders.

They should let us beta test it for one of our tourneys and we'll find everything!