Bootie reads the bible....

Bootie

Bootie

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Yep... its true... I have never read it and have just started. Its something I'll try and read a few paragraphs of a day and before Im dead I hope to have completed it..... some things make me giggle and I will probably use this thread to highlight them and throw them open for discussion.

Ok... today I was reading about Noah and his sons... they all jumped on the Ark and grabbed all the living things in the world. (Why did they bring mosquitoes on?) Anyway... once the floods that God sent abatted Noah hopped out with his sons Shem, Ham and Japheth and Noah set about making himself a vineyard so he could get tanked up on wine. He got really drunk stripped of and fell asleep. His son Ham was loitering by his fathers tent and seen his father Noah completely bladdered strip of, do a silly dance and collapse in a drunken heap with his bare arse showing to the world. Ham called his brothers and said 'Hey guys, Dads blazing and his knackers are on full display.... I say we go in and throw a robe over him'. The brothers agree pop into the tent and throw a robe on naked, drunk Noah. Now... when Noah wakes up he is furious his sons have thrown a rug over him (bit of an exhibitionist eh?) and shouts out 'Cursed be Canaan (Hams son) the lowest of slaves he shall be to his brothers and then says Canaan shall be the slave of Shem and Japheth will have huge territories. What the hell is that all about?? A bit extreme if you ask me... I know if I was blazxing drunk and lying with my ass in the air I would appreciate someone covering me up... I wouldnt curse them... that must have been one hell of a hangover Noah had?

Discussion. :)
 
Maybe after you pass the 200 year mark you just get really really irritable?
 
Why did they bring mosquitoes on? + are you questioning God's decisions ? ;)
 
The Bible is a fascinating mix of fact, metaphor, parable and analogy so don't try to interpret it literally..:)
For example the Noah's Ark story may be an analogy where the Ark represents (in modern terms) a DNA warehouse (craft?) where billions of tiny cell samples (not full-blown animals) could be kept safe from some outside danger (represented by the 'flood').
We could even speculate that the Earth itself is the Ark, sailing the ocean of space with its precious cargo, something like in the film 'Silent Running' where an assortment of animal and plant species are housed aboard a spacecraft -

SILENT RUNNING - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silent_Running
 
God did not bring on mosquitoes...it was the white man when he came to the new world.
You see there were white settlers in Churchill Manitoba (northern canada) and in the days of the wooden ships it would take years to tranverse the ocean. Well they left a settlement of people and when they returned all the people in the settlement were dead, except one old eskimo woman. Those that came back thought this rather odd...why would she live and no one else? When asked what she lived on once everyone was dead , she said she had eaten bugs ,grubs and such. The new arrivals did not believe her and called her a witch etc. Then they killed her, but before she died she cursed the white man. After killing her they cut her open to see what she had been eating and found her stomach full of bugs and grubs and such. These insects then sprouted wings and became Mosquitoes and black flies, fullfilling her curse. So gentlemen there you have it the story of the Mosquitoe.
 
Ok next question that interests me.

The tribes of Noah spread all over the world and a few of them grouped together, invented the brick and bitumen and decided to build a big tower in a place called Shenar. They started to build it and called it The Tower of Babel. They slaved away saying to themselves 'Lets make a name for ourselves and not be scattered over the whole earth'....

What?

Build a big tower and get everyone in the world to live in it.... taking it in context that is what it sounds like but anyway... God decided to pop in and visit this big tower that was being built and he was like... 'Ummm... thats pretty impressive. These people all over the world have decided to build a big tower... they all speak the same language so giving orders to each other is a bit easy. If this tower gets any bigger it'll be poking through my lawn in heaven... Im not happy about that. So to confuse them he decides to make them all speak different languages and teleported them to places all over the world. Thats why Texans dont sound like New Yoikers apparently. But the question is... whilst doing this God said 'If as one people speaking the same language they have begun to do this then nothing they plan to do would be impossible for them'.

Ummm... ok... and the problem with that is?

Was God worried about man becoming too big for his boots?

What does he feel now that advances in science are pushing our knowledge of everything further and further out there?
 
To those of you who have read the bible did you find it an interesting story, do you try and think about what is written and what it could possibly mean, do you skip the bits where it lists all the families and who begat who (?). The Old Testament is pretty hard going. Is the bible really the bible as in... I have heard it has been edited and changed so many times that it has morphed from its original format with bits being left out and bits added. How old is the oldest biblical scripts still in existence?
 
Bootie said:
whilst doing this God said 'If as one people speaking the same language they have begun to do this then nothing they plan to do would be impossible for them'.
Ummm... ok... and the problem with that is?
Was God worried about man becoming too big for his boots?
What does he feel now that advances in science are pushing our knowledge of everything further and further out there?
Click to expand...

Again, let's not be too literal. For examp the Tower of Babel might simply be a metaphor for mankinds striving for material knowledge, so perhaps God got fed up and sabotaged their efforts to make them strive a bit more for spiritual knowledge too.
As for 'pushing our knowledge further out there', there's nothing out there in space except dead lifeless cosmic debris in the form of stars and planets and bits of rock bumping into each other, personally it bores me stiff.
Remember that Star Trek TNG episode where the friendly alien called 'The Traveller' offers to take Wesley on a tour of the universe to see its 'wonders', I'd have said "thanks but no thanks mate, on yer bike"
 
Bootie said:
Yep... its true... I have never read it and have just started. Its something I'll try and read a few paragraphs of a day and before Im dead I hope to have completed it..... some things make me giggle and I will probably use this thread to highlight them and throw them open for discussion.

Ok... today I was reading about Noah and his sons... they all jumped on the Ark and grabbed all the living things in the world. (Why did they bring mosquitoes on?) Anyway... once the floods that God sent abatted Noah hopped out with his sons Shem, Ham and Japheth and Noah set about making himself a vineyard so he could get tanked up on wine. He got really drunk stripped of and fell asleep. His son Ham was loitering by his fathers tent and seen his father Noah completely bladdered strip of, do a silly dance and collapse in a drunken heap with his bare arse showing to the world. Ham called his brothers and said 'Hey guys, Dads blazing and his knackers are on full display.... I say we go in and throw a robe over him'. The brothers agree pop into the tent and throw a robe on naked, drunk Noah. Now... when Noah wakes up he is furious his sons have thrown a rug over him (bit of an exhibitionist eh?) and shouts out 'Cursed be Canaan (Hams son) the lowest of slaves he shall be to his brothers and then says Canaan shall be the slave of Shem and Japheth will have huge territories. What the hell is that all about?? A bit extreme if you ask me... I know if I was blazxing drunk and lying with my ass in the air I would appreciate someone covering me up... I wouldnt curse them... that must have been one hell of a hangover Noah had?

Discussion. :)
Click to expand...

What you've run across is one of the strongest biblical passages used to justify slavery...Ham's family descendants were alleged (in a piece of pure racist sophistry) to be the Africans etc being bought and sold as slaves. This was God's curse via Noah and therefore quite alright....and of course the Bible has various passages about how to treat slaves, so obviously God isn't against it as such...although you can also find bits in the New Testament that imply you should abhor slavery...but then you've got the whole problem that Jesus says that all the laws of the Old Testament are not being altered by him, so in the end who knows what's happening and it had to be settled via the American Civil War.

The Old Testament has savage punishments for crimes that we would either not find crimes at all or would regard as trivial....and when the punishments get visited on people's children as well it is all rather off-putting.
 
Bootie said:
To those of you who have read the bible did you find it an interesting story, do you try and think about what is written and what it could possibly mean, do you skip the bits where it lists all the families and who begat who (?). The Old Testament is pretty hard going. Is the bible really the bible as in... I have heard it has been edited and changed so many times that it has morphed from its original format with bits being left out and bits added. How old is the oldest biblical scripts still in existence?
Click to expand...

I've read close to the whole thing, most of it a long time ago. Eventually the inconsistencies and monstrous cruelty of the Old Testament opened my eyes to the truth of the overall matter.
 
Bootie said:
To those of you who have read the bible did you find it an interesting story, do you try and think about what is written and what it could possibly mean, do you skip the bits where it lists all the families and who begat who (?). The Old Testament is pretty hard going. Is the bible really the bible as in... I have heard it has been edited and changed so many times that it has morphed from its original format with bits being left out and bits added. How old is the oldest biblical scripts still in existence?
Click to expand...

1- There are 66 separate books in the bible, some are historical and boring, and some are not, I certainly haven't read it from cover to cover myself.
Best starting point is the gospels, you can pick up a single slimline gospel booklet for a few pence or free from most christian groups or the internet, that's all you need, and if that doesn't lock anybody onto Jesus, nothing else will-
"Jesus gives us all we need for life" (2 Peter 1:3)

2- Atheists are fond of saying the bible's been edited and changed over the centuries to make it look good, then in their next breath they say its full of contradictions and inconsistencies. I wish they'd make up their minds whether its been prettied up or not..:)
The fact that there are jarring, untidy bits in the bible that haven't been edited out prove we can trust the bible as having come down to us over the centuries warts and all.

3- The earliest bible manuscripts were written on parchment that has long ago crumbled to dust, but not before copies were made, then more copies after them, and so on, right to the present day.
One interesting original bit of parchment that still exists is Dead Sea scroll 4Q246 written around the time of Jesus that says- "He shall be called the son of God, and they shall call him son of the Most High"


The atheists version of how the Bible came to us-
MEDIEVAL ABBOT (to monk) - "Father Batholomew, I want you to translate these ancient bible scriptures into english, take them to your room and spend the next 20 years on the task, I'll have wine and hot food sent in to you every day to ensure your comfort"
BART - "Thank you Father" (Abbot exits stage left)
BART'S MATE - "Hey man, why didn't you tell him you can hardly read and write?"
BART - "Not me chum, I know when I'm on to a good thing, i'll make it up as i go along"..


Incidentally Bible Gateway is great fun for rummaging round the bible- http://www.biblegateway.com/keyword/
 
As regards the cruelty of the Old T, if the OT was all we needed, God wouldn't have sent Jesus to give us the New T update would he?..:)
"In the past God overlooked such ignorance.." (Acts 17:30)
"The covenant of Jesus is superior to the old one" (Hebrews 8:6-13)

Even slavery is trashed in the New T-
"We also know that law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious; for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers,for adulterers and perverts, for slave traders and liars and perjurers-and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine that conforms to the glorious gospel of the blessed God" (1 Timothy 1:9)

And even in the OT slave-drivers didn't always have it easy, Moses himself killed one of them-
"One day, after Moses had grown up, he went out to where his own people were and watched them at their hard labor. He saw an Egyptian beating a Hebrew, one of his own people. Glancing this way and that and seeing no one, he killed the Egyptian and hid him in the sand" (Exodus 2:11)

MOSES (to Egyptian foreman) - "Hey mister, maybe you'd like to stop beating up that poor slave and try me on fer size?"
EGYPTIAN - "You talk mighty big mister, but can you walk the walk?"
MOSES - "Your move"..
Bam!....Bam!...Bam!...Bam!
EGYPTIAN (dying) "ugh..i'll get a good nights sleep tonight..."
ONLOOKER - "Hey Mose you'd better git outta town real fast, Pharoahs gonna be comin after yer fer sure"..
MOSES - "I know it old-timer, I'm a-headin fer them thar hills"
PHAROAH (on hearing the news) "Looks like we got ourselves a fugitive..Average foot speed over uneven ground, barring injury, is four miles an hour. That gives us a radius of six miles. What I want out of each and everyone of you is a hard target search of every residence, warehouse, farmhouse, hen house, outhouse and doghouse in that area.
Go get him!"
 
Bootie There is a lot to be said about these things, but I fail to see any point for me to chime in here. I would much rather talk over a couple of beers.
 
LOLOL, POS,

That dialogue was funnn-eeeee!

"We also know that law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious; for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers,for adulterers and perverts, for slave traders and liars and perjurers-and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine that conforms to the glorious gospel of the blessed God" (1 Timothy 1:9)
Click to expand...

Thanks for sharing the above quote.
 
Sorry Spike, but that view you share here is simply NOT true. And I'd appreciate it if everyone stopped speaking of the 'God of the OT' and 'God of the NT' as two completely different beings. It isn't that way and never has been. That we got a New Testament has different reasons than that, as anyone who has read the bible properly should be aware of.
 
Bootie said:
Ham called his brothers and said 'Hey guys, Dads blazing and his knackers are on full display.... I say we go in and throw a robe over him'. The brothers agree pop into the tent and throw a robe on naked, drunk Noah. Now... when Noah wakes up he is furious his sons have thrown a rug over him (bit of an exhibitionist eh?) and shouts out 'Cursed be Canaan (Hams son) the lowest of slaves he shall be to his brothers and then says Canaan shall be the slave of Shem and Japheth will have huge territories. What the hell is that all about?? A bit extreme if you ask me... I know if I was blazxing drunk and lying with my ass in the air I would appreciate someone covering me up... I wouldnt curse them... that must have been one hell of a hangover Noah had?

Discussion. :)
Click to expand...

According to my bible translation it were Sem and Jafeth who covered their naked father. The reason Noah was furious with Cham was because Cham, who found him, should have covered him up, but instead made fun of his father.
As you may know respect from the children for their parents is very important in the bible. One of the ten commandments ordains it even.

About the ark: did you know that its dimensions are ideal for an unpowered boat to make it as seaworthy as possible ? The Gilgamesj epos has a huge flood story too, but the boat they build was a sphere. Try to keep your footing in such a craft !
 
Bootie said:
To those of you who have read the bible did you find it an interesting story, do you try and think about what is written and what it could possibly mean, do you skip the bits where it lists all the families and who begat who (?). The Old Testament is pretty hard going. Is the bible really the bible as in... I have heard it has been edited and changed so many times that it has morphed from its original format with bits being left out and bits added. How old is the oldest biblical scripts still in existence?
Click to expand...

I'm one of those weird people who believe the bible is the word from God. I don't understand everything. I haven't got every explanation for seemingly contradictive parts either. But I lack the knowledge and scope of vision my Creator has, so often I let go in trying to grasp certain parts.
Perhaps some insight for you in the books of Job chapter 38 and Isaiah chapter 55 verse 9.

About the credibility of the stories in the bible: in comparison to a lot of historic events which are believed to be true, the bibilical stories are often older and found in more different manuscripts. If my memory serves me correct there are two historians who have written about the life of Alexander the Great. Both were no contemporaries. Yet, few events about the life of Alexander are questioned. Same about teh gauls and germans. The only written source is roman and Tacitus lived in the 2nd century AD...

You ay have guessed: I'm a Christian.
 
PoorOldSpike said:
2- Atheists are fond of saying the bible's been edited and changed over the centuries to make it look good, then in their next breath they say its full of contradictions and inconsistencies. I wish they'd make up their minds whether its been prettied up or not..:)
The fact that there are jarring, untidy bits in the bible that haven't been edited out prove we can trust the bible as having come down to us over the centuries warts and all.
Click to expand...

It is edited, it is changed, and much is lost in translation...So it's natural that is full of contradictions...flat Earth, Earth spinning in different directions, etc...
Bible is no more than nice story, which is also shared by other sacred books from all other religions.
 
Bert Blitzkrieg said:
About the ark: did you know that its dimensions are ideal for an unpowered boat to make it as seaworthy as possible ? The Gilgamesj epos has a huge flood story too, but the boat they build was a sphere. Try to keep your footing in such a craft !
Click to expand...

Actually - no.
It's dimensions are so wrong.
Wooden boat, which is that big would collapse under its own weight. If not, one would need many water pumps to pump unwanted water - like all
modern ships do.
 
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