Bootie reads the bible....

Earl of Grey said:
Sorry Spike, but that view you share here is simply NOT true. And I'd appreciate it if everyone stopped speaking of the 'God of the OT' and 'God of the NT' as two completely different beings. It isn't that way and never has been. That we got a New Testament has different reasons than that, as anyone who has read the bible properly should be aware of.
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I agree with you Earl of grey, I find these discussions very frustrating. They usally degrade into name calling and hard feelings. I am impressed that Bootie has picked up the book and is reading it, all books should be read and enjoyed. It is a bonus that some of us have the author in our hearts to assist in understanding it.
 
zaraza said:
Actually - no.
It's dimensions are so wrong.
Wooden boat, which is that big would collapse under its own weight.
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Depends on the inner structure. It won't collapse "just" because it is big.
But let's agree to disagree.
 
Regarding the arc

What happened to the fish? If all the land of the world was flooded then freshwater would increase in salinity and become brackish and sea-water would decrease in salinity and become brackish, therefore all fully fresh and fully sal****er fish would die. Did noah have a giant aquarium in his arc?
 
2054172 said:
I agree with you Earl of grey, I find these discussions very frustrating. They usally degrade into name calling and hard feelings. I am impressed that Bootie has picked up the book and is reading it, all books should be read and enjoyed. It is a bonus that some of us have the author in our hearts to assist in understanding it.
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I expect this to stay civil... if it does start to degrade into arguments then I'll just delete it. Thanks. :)
 
Ok moving on... whats the score with God saying to Abram (or Abraham as he decided to rename him) having to go and cut the foreskin of all his pals to prove his covenant with God...can you imagine that.

Abram - Ok guys.... I got a great proposition.
Pal - Huh whats that Abram.
Abram - Well God now has a covenant with me and to prove my covenant to him I have to cut the skin of your penis and anyone else around here.
Pal - Umm are you sure... I mean.... I was just gonna go for a ride on that cow and well you know... it might sting a little.
Abram - Did you not hear me... anyone who doesnt lose that bit of skin will be cut of from his people.
Pal - Ok... here ya go.. cut it of.
Abram - Thankyou.
Pal - Arrrrggghhh... thats a blunt knife!!

Anyone care to elaborate on the culture of circumcision and why it is still carried out today.
 
Earl of Grey said:
Sorry Spike, but that view you share here is simply NOT true. And I'd appreciate it if everyone stopped speaking of the 'God of the OT' and 'God of the NT' as two completely different beings. It isn't that way and never has been. That we got a New Testament has different reasons than that, as anyone who has read the bible properly should be aware of.
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Right, people wonder why the Old Testament was so harsh. The answer is that God has never changed, but the way he had to package himself to get his message across HAS changed, he had to talk in harsh primitive OT terms to earlier harsh primitive peoples in their own "language" like a strict headteacher to get their attention, but now school's out forever..:)
"The law brought us to Christ like a schoolmaster,but now through Christ we are not under that schoolmaster" (Gal 3:22-25)

(Likewise, when Ryker in Star Trek joined Klingon vessel Pagh on an exchange visit as 1st Officer he had to punch and throw stroppy Klingon 2nd Officer Klag across the bridge to get the attention and respect of him and the rest of the crew )
When God felt the time was right to package himself in a softer way to more advanced peoples, he gave us Jesus who came not to abolish the OT wholesale, but to show us how to apply its rules with enlightened goodnatured commonsense.
Jesus said - "It was said 'eye for eye,tooth for tooth' but I say turn the other cheek" (Matt 5:38/39)
And people quickly realised - "The covenant of Jesus is superior to the old one" (Heb 8:6-7)
Jesus saves, not the OT..:)
Right Klag?

"Grrrr..."
klagA.jpg
 
Bert Blitzkrieg said:
I'm one of those weird people who believe the bible is the word from God. I don't understand everything..
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None of us do mate, our weak human minds just aren't up to it-
Jesus said:-"You hardly believe me when I tell you earthly things,so how would you believe me if I told you heavenly things?" (John 3:12)
"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, declares the Lord" (Isaiah 55:8 )

However, we don't need to go to bible college or study the bible from cover to cover to understand the simple basics, namely-
"Love God, love one another, feed the hungry, house the homeless, clothe the destitute, tend the sick, visit the prisoners, look after the poor"- Jesus of Nazareth
 
zaraza said:
It is edited, it is changed, and much is lost in translation...So it's natural that is full of contradictions..
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There are dozens of books about D-Day written by many different authors, often not agreeing with each other, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't read them. In fact it's a healthy thing to read different points of view and examine the subject from different angles so we can get a better idea of the big picture.
Same with the four gospels, they sometimes don't agree with each other on minor details but they all serve as useful cross-references for each other.
Even the Koran, written 600 years after Jesus, admits he was something special-
[Koran 2.253]- "We have made some of these apostles to excel the others, among them are they to whom Allah spoke, and some of them He exalted by many degrees of rank; and We gave clear miracles to Isa [Jesus] son of Marium [Mary], and strengthened him with the holy spirit."
 
Bootie said:
..Anyone care to elaborate on the culture of circumcision and why it is still carried out today.
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It's just an ancient OT tradition mate, here's the New T stance on it-
"Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing. Keeping God's commands is what counts"-1 Cor 7:19
 
zaraza said:
It is edited, it is changed, and much is lost in translation...So it's natural that is full of contradictions...flat Earth, Earth spinning in different directions, etc...
Bible is no more than nice story, which is also shared by other sacred books from all other religions.
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AS with most people they state that there were many changes and it was edited but they give no facts just talk. I believe the bible is as complete as it was during it's first writing. Old or new testament.
There is some aspects that translation into english can be lost but not really. Any one wishing to can aquire a Hebrew or NT greek scripture and or plenty of concordances to help show the other words that english doesnot have covered.
 
PoorOldSpike said:
There are dozens of books about D-Day written by many different authors, often not agreeing with each other, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't read them.
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Yes, but there are historucal facts that distinguish truth from nonsense...

Even the Koran, written 600 years after Jesus, admits he was something special-
[Koran 2.253]- "We have made some of these apostles to excel the others, among them are they to whom Allah spoke, and some of them He exalted by many degrees of rank; and We gave clear miracles to Isa [Jesus] son of Marium [Mary], and strengthened him with the holy spiri
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Is this part metaphore maybe? For something?
 
2054172 said:
AS with most people they state that there were many changes and it was edited but they give no facts just talk. I believe the bible is as complete as it was during it's first writing. Old or new testament.
There is some aspects that translation into english can be lost but not really. Any one wishing to can aquire a Hebrew or NT greek scripture and or plenty of concordances to help show the other words that english doesnot have covered.
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And how do you know that Hebrew versions are 100% correct?
 
Jesus travelled all over Israel for 3 long years in front of the people and the occupying Roman Army, that's a lot of eyewitnesses - “I've spoken openly to the world..I said nothing in secret" (John 18:20)

And "Large crowds from Galilee, the Ten Cities, Jerusalem, Judea and the region across the Jordan followed him" (Matt 4:25)

And he pulled audiences of over 4000 and 5000 at two gigs alone (Matt 15:32, Matt 14:13)

Later the gospels were written with help from "eyewitnesses and ministers of the word" (Luke 1:2), and nobody ever said "Hey that's not the way it happened!"

I mean, Jesus was too BIG to be untrue, it'd be like saying Elvis never existed..:)
Right Elv?

"Uh-huh"
elvis-lip.jpg
 
Can someone point me how to know if some text in Bible is metaphoric?
 
zaraza said:
And how do you know that Hebrew versions are 100% correct?
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I am not the one saying it is not correct you are...I ask with respect to show me other wise.
The ball is in your court and still is.
 
2054172 said:
I am not the one saying it is not correct you are...I ask with respect to show me other wise.
The ball is in your court and still is.
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No mate, Bible readers/believers should prove that it is the original version.
 
Well, the point is that we can prove that even the Hebrew text isn't without faults and flaws (there are, after all, bible editions especially meant for 'scientific reading' - premise is you can read Hebrew). The other thing is that in ancient Israel (or, to be more exact, with the people that came later known to be Israel, which just happened ~1000 B.C.) there was a group of 'specialists who did nothing else than make sure that all of the old and holy stories (starting with Adam and Eve) were passed on to future generations as exactly as was possible. By the time those stories were written down, the oldest could well have been already 2000 or 3000 years old. And since the Bible never claims to have been sent by God directly (that is a myth from much later times) one will find contradictions and errors. It is, after all, a book written by ordinary (in a positive sense) people.
 
zaraza said:
No mate, Bible readers/believers should prove that it is the original version.
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So what you are saying is, all your past statements about the bible full of contradictions was just talk from you without any facts to back it up. You want us to prove that it is without faults etc. ??? How do you wish that to happen seeing we believe it is perfect as it is. LOL
 
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