There are several reasons for believing that we are under counting deaths caused by Covid 19 here are a few:
- Historically that happens. During other pandemics when public health officials and epidemiologists look back at the data and evidence they find that in the moment we missed some deaths that were caused by the disease. Clearly that is not really evidence that it is happening now but I think an important note to take that under counting is not unexpected.
- We have the over all example that I gave earlier. The deaths of humans is over all fairly predictable. The number of people who die each year in a country remains in a normal range unless something happens. For example a famine will push that up. Or in this case a pandemic. Not long a go I read an article that quoted that at that time in the US they were counting 150 000 deaths due to Covid 19 but over that same time period there were actually 200 000 more deaths than expected.
- We have examples from NYC early in the pandemic. Their standard for counting a death as due to Covid 19 was that the person died after having a positive test for Covid 19 or at least a doctor diagnosing the disease. During that time of year they normally have 20 people die in their homes each day but during the pandemic that number was 200. Many of those people's families said they were sick and had symptoms constant with Covid 19 but they were not classified as having died from Covid 19.
But shouldn't the actual cause of death be counted as the cause of death? I think other things can be listed as secondary or contributing.
As an example many men get prostrate cancer. Many of these men will actually die of heart attacks etc after they have tested positive for prostrate cancer. But the death certificate lists the cause of death as a heart attack (or that fancy medical phrase they use for heart attacks). Why is it different for Covid?
Doctors do often list multiple causes of death - they list the things that contributed directly to the death. In your above example I honestly have no idea if prostate cancel contributes to heart problems. If it does then it would be on the list of causes. If it does not then it should not be on the list.
Here is another example I heard a doctor use. She has diabetes and is attacked by a bear. In the ICU while they are treating her bear attack injuries they have trouble controlling her sugar levels and she dies. The bear attack would the listed at the cause of death. The point is if she had not been attacked by a bear there is not reasons to believe that her otherwise in control diabetes would have killed her.
No, this isn't the first I've heard of this happening. There are a number of accounts where deaths are listed as COVID deaths when they are not. So my question is this. Of the people that were COVID positive two weeks ago, how many have survived and recovered? Why aren't we tracking that type of statistic?
Yeah, here is the thing. People pointing out errors like that are the ones that have an agenda. You should pay attention to that. Here let's establish a few things and see if we agree on some basics:
- We know that the Covid 19 disease is real
- We know that it can kill people
- We know that a lot of people have died since the outbreak above and beyond the normal expected number of deaths. Specifically in the US that number is at least 200 000 for the time period of the pandemic.
Are we good with the above? If not then what I am about to say next will not convince you.
What are the chances that there are 200 000 or even 150 000 or even 100 000 mistakes like the example you gave that are suddenly being made by doctors? Practially it is zero. What are the chances that a cabal of doctors are conspiring to create these numbers. Definitely zero. What are the chances that a cabal of journalists are conspiring to create these numbers. Definitely zero.
How am I so sure?
Doctors, in general know what they are doing when it comes to disease diagnosis and treatment and the detection and recording of deaths. It is literally what they do. I have seen no evidence of large scale deception by doctors. Sure their are quacks out there but quackery just noise in the numbers that do a great job and care for us day in and day out.
Journalists, in general report the truth as they find it. Sure there are plenty of laziness and short cuts and terrible headlines but the basic stories are what they see and hear from people. There is plenty to be critical of in journalism. The great thing about journalism is that if someone uncovers new facts they report them and others go and investigate too. It's not a perfect science and its not as trustworthy as doctors but if one outlet publishing something that is BS another will publish a more accurate version. There is no way that a cabal of journalists could twist things so much without that leaking out.
Please note I am talking about journalism here not opinion pieces. That is an important distinction. Someone could write an opinion column about how they thing the whole Covid 19 pandemic is exaggerated and they might pull up goofy instances of clearly wrong record keeping to support their opinion. But a fact that I can list 10, 20 or hundreds of instances of incorrect manner of death is not really evidence that the pandemic is exaggerated. That's me throwing shade on experts, other reporters etc to convince you that you should not listen to the facts but instead listen to my opinion. That is not equivalent. If we want to establish that this whole thing is exaggerated then we need thousands upon thousands upon tens of thousands of examples of such malfeasance. There is no reason at all to think that doctors are doing anything like that and that journalists are covering it up.
That is preposterous.
Also, anyone else notice how ape shit the media has been about the post-Sturgis outbreaks, but still not saying a word about the risk of exposure at all these BLM and Antifa protests? Reporting the news, not so much, "shaping" the news, yep!
I call BS. I have no idea what you mean by post-Sturgis so I have no comment about that. But I constantly see two things, either mentioned directly or evident from the supporting images, in the coverage of protests against police racial violence. One, you actually see protesters wearing masks because they know that there is a pandemic going on and that they have to be as careful as they can be. Two, journalists often comment on the dangers of gathering and point out or interview people who remind high risk people they should stay away. I do not see some kind of shaping of a narrative that political rallies and church services cause spread and that protests do not.
