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Kacper
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Until this is fixed, CM will never be a great game ... imhoDrifter Man said:
Yeah and then you experience something like @Stafford shared here
Click to expand...
Until this is fixed, CM will never be a great game ... imhoDrifter Man said:
Yeah and then you experience something like @Stafford shared here
Click to expand...
Combat mission is the best game in the world.... that we have.Until this is fixed, CM will never be a great game ... imho.
I use this technique and often I am not sure if my behaviour is superstitious or rational but I found different units will spot differently (via waypoint viewing) at the same tile square. So using a tank to spot from the waypoint square will yield a different view then say a squad. What this precisely reveals as to spotting behaviour in fulI cannot say.To save time with this you can also plot multiple waypoints out with the same unit around where you want to check LOS.
Or at the very least it will raise some dust around the threat obscuring their view. Just not sure if this qualifies as Borg spotting?A technique I use is to area fire (usually with target briefly) where I know / think the enemy is. If the tank does spot the enemy unit they will, typically, switch their attention to the actual threat they see and fire the right ammo at it. If they don't ever spot the target they will at least send some HE down range. I have been lucky doing this HE can do a lot against many targets.
I would like to know the group's opinion of this as well. My sense is if some of your forces can see a target it's likely they will find some way to get word of the general location of the target around. I think about that scene in Band of Brothers where they are trying to get the British tanker to shoot through a building at the German tank. He is generally made aware of the area of the German tank even if he can't see it.Just not sure if this qualifies as Borg spotting?
Or at the very least it will raise some dust around the threat obscuring their view. Just not sure if this qualifies as Borg spotting?
I would like to know the group's opinion of this as well. My sense is if some of your forces can see a target it's likely they will find some way to get word of the general location of the target around. I think about that scene in Band of Brothers where they are trying to get the British tanker to shoot through a building at the German tank. He is generally made aware of the area of the German tank even if he can't see it.
I agree I was puzzled once that the Browning .30 LMG on a tripod didn't have LOS while a nearby unit of infantry engaged. It was a wheatfield and once on a tripod, the LMG didn't have a LOS. It is relative spotting as per the manual or compare it with a roll of the dice.So the waypoint method to check LOS is not anything close to exact. It just helps.
The problem here is that the game actually does have a system for handling units "being made aware" of threats they haven't seen, themselves. It's the contact marker system. But it's not properly used by the game to prevent silly things from happening.
The reason I play on Iron. Units outside another unit C2 structure don't get the Contact Icon eg infantry and armor. The turn is finished and by clicking a unit you can see which units outside his C2 he can see before you press the Red Button to start a new command phase. A scout unit if it is attached to an armor unit doesn't pass on the intel if its C2 is only with the armor. I let the TacAI do most of the work most area fire by direct fire units is a waste of ammo. Play the game a lot and keep a log of what works.I wouldn’t mind being restricted in not taking an area fire shot as long as my opponent reciprocated.
But I see a problem here with the CM engine itself. Recently I had various tanks units all in contact with HQ and HQ was aware that enemy tanks had moved yet one formation refused to update that knowledge. I was then made aware of a bug where the engine will not update the visual but I could take it as a given that they were aware of the change in position. To make that assumption would be borg spotting by appearance yet not due to faulty engine graphics. When is it one thing and not the other and who makes the judgment?The turn is finished and by clicking a unit you can see which units outside his C2 he can see before you press the Red Button to start a new command phase. A scout unit if it is attached to an armor unit doesn't pass on the intel if its C2 is only with the armor. I let the TacAI do most of the work most area fire by direct fire units is a waste of ammo. Play the game a lot and keep a log of what works.
You're the person making the judgment. The contact icon is only passed on by the vertical structure. I use the IXO of a company to contact for example an armored platoon. They hypothetically will be assigned to the company and do what the XO does. Typically the HQ will have an HMG, Sniper Team. It is feasible that the MG or even the XO will area fire and the AFV will follow him. Also, an AFV when unbuttoned will get the contact icon of an adjacent infantry unit.But I see a problem here with the CM engine itself. Recently I had various tanks units all in contact with HQ and HQ was aware that enemy tanks had moved yet one formation refused to update that knowledge. I was then made aware of a bug where the engine will not update the visual but I could take it as a given that they were aware of the change in position. To make that assumption would be borg spotting by appearance yet not due to faulty engine graphics. When is it one thing and not the other and who makes the judgment?
I'm not talking about "bad form" here - as long as you agree with your opponent and have fun, it's all good. What I'm saying is that I would like the game to restrict the area fire so you would have to get the target info from your infantry to your tank before you could fire.There is a Fortress Italy scenario where the Italians are attacking a farm with two bridges. Beside one of the roads near a bridge there is one building. It almost looks like a gas station. I had a tank destroyer spot my opponent’s gun halftrack down around that building before he lost the spot. Closer infantry could still see the halftrack. Is it bad form to area fire behind that building?
Yes, and this is exactly why I would like the game itself reinforcing the rule. I'd also like the game to be able to reinforce limits on the amount of points spent on tanks, and the option to lock all unit purchases to "typical" values, etc.I wouldn’t mind being restricted in not taking an area fire shot as long as my opponent reciprocated. It just seems like the case by case nature of the determination could be murky and prone to subjective interpretation.
Yes, the contact sharing feature seems glitchy, and I suspect this is one of the biggest reasons for why BFC doesn't implement this feature. They know they would then need to fix the contact sharing, as currently, contacts sometimes refuse to update or sometimes bounce back and forth between several locations, but we as players disregard this as there are no real gameplay consequences. If a contact marker was needed for area fire, suddenly it would be very important that the game out it in the right place.But I see a problem here with the CM engine itself. Recently I had various tanks units all in contact with HQ and HQ was aware that enemy tanks had moved yet one formation refused to update that knowledge. I was then made aware of a bug where the engine will not update the visual but I could take it as a given that they were aware of the change in position. To make that assumption would be borg spotting by appearance yet not due to faulty engine graphics. When is it one thing and not the other and who makes the judgment?
As far as I'm aware, most people play the game aware that Borg spotting is a thing, you will use it, your opponent will use it, so you adjust your playstyle accordingly.
It's certainly how I play the game, as soon as my unit crests over the ridge out of my startline and is spotted by an enemy scout, it is fair game for any of his units to hit - regardless of whether they have spotted it or have a sound contact or not.
Borg spotting has never been a problem for competitive play, since both players can take advantage of it equally, as you said. My argument is just that it would be fun with an optional game mode where area fire is restricted. Combat Mission has this great spotting and contact sharing system - I think it's a pity it's not used more actively for the actual gameplay.
If memory serves correctly, a couple of guys over on the BF forums had a specific ruleset for this a while ago - I think @Bil Hardenberger was one of the guys who agreed to play a game although I can't recall a DAR/AAR.
The crux of it was, again IIRC, spotting by the player could only be done from ground level (ie you only see what your units see), and you could only area fire something with a unit if that unit had a sound contact.
Obviously it requires a huge amount of trust so was only really applicable between players who held a good rapport.
You really think it is in the "great" category? It seems to be very pessimistic about which unit can see which enemy unit. Especially right down the coax of a tank, where multiple people's optics point. With and without magnification. Still I often have AFVs not see something right in front of them that infantry spotted.Combat Mission has this great spotting and contact sharing system - I think it's a pity it's not used more actively for the actual gameplay.