Teaser video for CM "Market Garden"

nathangun said:
I think we here at FGM are reliable when it comes to finishing campaigns.
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Yep, my comment wasn't aimed at the reliability of the FGMs members, but the scale of the campaigns being proposed.

I have some experience with these now (only playing in them, not running them) and for me less seems to be more, i.e a clearly defined finish which is achievable in maybe around 1 year real-time.
I'm actually fairly pessimistic about the proposal for this Operational Layer game being currently discussed. It won't work, at least not in the way people imagine it in their dreams. The reality is that it is VERY hard to keep any number of players (larger than maybe 4) interested in something like this over a prolonged time. Not really a good business idea to build on and I fully understand why BFC won't do it .. it would fail.
 
You may be right Mike. I for one would be happy to pay, just off the top of my head, let's say 35 bucks a year, to play in these operations. But your probably right. Since we have only about 150 members and maybe 30 that are into the operations it probably wouldn't be a good business idea. My passion is not necessarily someone else's. And I wasn't talking about BF. I was talking about something simple like a website for tourneys or operations.
 
Hi guys, Just saw this thread...I had a lot of work to wrap up lately because I retired last week, and we had a huge family reunion Friday and today, and I turn 60 tomorrow, so I've been busy and haven't been able to kick back...but now I can for ( hopefully) a long, long time.

Strachwitz is correct, I have both Where Eagles Dare and Devils Cauldron, so I can get the rules and supplemental stuff like charts, tables, etc., to whoever needs them. Broadsword 56 over on the BFC forum has already developed rules for conversion to CM for an op campaign we are going to embark upon once MG comes out. I have them, but don't know if he would be OK with me sharing them. But it sounds like Strachwitz already has a good start on some rules already.

I got distracted with finishing up all my cases before retirement, and Broadsword and I both got sidetracked working on a Crete campaign (I did the mods and am working on Maleme map, he did the rules and Retimo map so far), so I need to get back to him regarding where he is with the MG campaign.

Please count me in on any campaign that comes of this. After a little fishing, traveling,etc., I'll be settling in for the winter with nothing but time on my hands. ;-)
 
I would like to call dips on a spot in a MG campaign since you guys are going to wreck my homeland ;)
 
Mad Mike said:
Yep, my comment wasn't aimed at the reliability of the FGMs members, but the scale of the campaigns being proposed.

I have some experience with these now (only playing in them, not running them) and for me less seems to be more, i.e a clearly defined finish which is achievable in maybe around 1 year real-time.
I'm actually fairly pessimistic about the proposal for this Operational Layer game being currently discussed. It won't work, at least not in the way people imagine it in their dreams. The reality is that it is VERY hard to keep any number of players (larger than maybe 4) interested in something like this over a prolonged time. Not really a good business idea to build on and I fully understand why BFC won't do it .. it would fail.
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I agree -- less is indeed more -- both from what's comfortable managable from the tourneymeister's p.o.v. and the players in terms of how long it takes to run to a conclusion.

I myself am skeptical about launching anything larger than my previous Heraklion campaign ... somehow the size, unit scale, FOW, casualty tracking and time frame just worked out really well -- also as far as the complexity of the campaign rules goes.

Experience has shown me that CO's running the operational scale of the campaign don't really want to wade through pages and pages of rules every time they need to issue orders (same applies to myself when running it ... often the long gaps between turns as players resolve the CM battles ... one forgets half the rules and has to re-read them nearly every time.)

So what I think would work best is to isolate aspects of the Market Garden battle turning smaller scenarios into max Brigade/Regt sized battles with company-sized units with strict time limits and victory conditions.

The Devil's Cauldron/Where Eagles Dare maps etc are work of beauty --- but the scale is insanely large and the rules very complex and their assymmetrical turn sequence system (as far as I can make head or tail of it) far too unwieldy for a CM-related campaign.

Simplicity works best at campaign level -- immersive detail is in the CM battles.
 
mjkerner said:
Hi guys, Just saw this thread...I had a lot of work to wrap up lately because I retired last week, and we had a huge family reunion Friday and today, and I turn 60 tomorrow, so I've been busy and haven't been able to kick back...but now I can for ( hopefully) a long, long time..........
Broadsword 56 over on the BFC forum has already developed rules for conversion to CM for an op campaign we are going to embark upon once MG comes out.

Please count me in on any campaign that comes of this. After a little fishing, traveling,etc., I'll be settling in for the winter with nothing but time on my hands. ;-)
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First off @mjkerner, happy birthday and congrats on retirement. The rules Broadsword did are they the same ones he done for the ST LO campaign ?
He obliging posted them on in an AAR (I'm sure your aware) here: http://www.battlefront.com/community/showthread.php?p=1391558#post1391558
 
I was working on this in the background for a while... not sure if it fits what we are talking about here,,,, @mjkerner Happy Birthday would you like a Fallschimjager Division as a present


I have the Stategic Map Completed, The landing zones are not on the map, but on a layer I can add.... But you will see in blue the Victory Locations for the Strategic level of the game.... (it should be cool, cause you could win all the CM battles but still have a tough time winning the Strategic Game.... The time line is put in and I am currently checking references for the weather....

On the Strategic Level, their will be an overall commander and 3 or 4 assistant commanders who will control units within their areas or specific Army/Corp Units... example - Bootie is the overall commander of the Allied Forces, Das Tiger controls the 82nd Airborne (+), Cargol control the 1st British Paracute Brigade, Wynntergreen controls the 101st Airborne... and Shorker controls the XXX Corp British units... then they will control their sub commanders... regular players

I am currently working on the OOB for the Axis side.... The Allied side is almost complete (then I will be making the 'counters' for the units...) at a regimental/battalion scale I have approximately 48 counters for the Allies... They will include, movement, state (fit, unfit, disrupted, etc) and the approximate points/strength (CM Points per say... like 2000 or 3000, etc).... in a few days I will have the Rulebook put up here for your perusal, I think it is about 60% done.... This is where I will be looking for lots of feedback from you guys....

So here is the map....

hell5.jpg


Please feel free to comment.... I also have identified on another map, certain hexes that will require custom maps to reflect the bridges, etc during battles for those areas...

COUNTER SAMPLE

counter.jpg

Here is an example of the Allied OOB

alliedoob.jpg
 
Looks great Rick.

Is there any date given as a release date
 
Rico said:
Rick - -forgot you were also working on a Market Garden campaign ... looks interesting ... similar way of doing the CM battles like in Overlord campaign?
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The key with this project would be the handling of the CMBN battles.... The bare minimum for a team would 5 players a side
(10 committed members) and then others can join or leave during the course of the campaign... 32 turns would require a 32 month commitment.... battles would be smaller than stated above and could have the outcome reflect either the brigade/regimental level or the battalion level depending on how many players beyond the 10 base players we have....

Example the 82nd AB has six counters on map... General Bootie plots movement phase for turn 4.... Bootie has no sub commanders, but there are 4 potential battles for the turn.... Bootie will then do one CMBN battle against his opponent to decide the outcome of all four battles (a bit abstract but... keep the line moving)... now say Bootie has 1 sub commander then maybe two battles are warranted (this will be dictated by the side with least amount of players)... hope this makes sense
 
Rico said:
@Strachwitz @Neubaufahrzeug

Ok, I got "Where Eagles Dare" or "The Devils Cauldron" from MMP games off VASSAL ... had a look ... holy shit, are they detailed with an absolutely bewildering variety of unit counters.

Scale is about 400 metres a hex, correct? I see units look like companies/platoons?

Anybody know where I can get a copy of rules just to get an idea what all these units represent?
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@Rico: http://www.multimanpublishing.com/Support/GrandTacticalSeries/tabid/81/Default.aspx

But you will not find an OoB. To transfer the Datas of the units into an Excel-file is a nightmare. :confused:
 
Fredrocker said:
I have the Stategic Map Completed, The landing zones are not on the map, but on a layer I can add.... But you will see in blue the Victory Locations for the Strategic level of the game.... (it should be cool, cause you could win all the CM battles but still have a tough time winning the Strategic Game.... The time line is put in and I am currently checking references for the weather....

On the Strategic Level, their will be an overall commander and 3 or 4 assistant commanders who will control units within their areas or specific Army/Corp Units... example - Bootie is the overall commander of the Allied Forces, Das Tiger controls the 82nd Airborne (+), Cargol control the 1st British Paracute Brigade, Wynntergreen controls the 101st Airborne... and Shorker controls the XXX Corp British units... then they will control their sub commanders... regular players

I am currently working on the OOB for the Axis side.... The Allied side is almost complete (then I will be making the 'counters' for the units...) at a regimental/battalion scale I have approximately 48 counters for the Allies... They will include, movement, state (fit, unfit, disrupted, etc) and the approximate points/strength (CM Points per say... like 2000 or 3000, etc).... in a few days I will have the Rulebook put up here for your perusal, I think it is about 60% done.... This is where I will be looking for lots of feedback from you guys....
Click to expand...

We started this game with four players at a convention in Aachen anywhen in the eighties:
- on Friday evening we set up the campaign game
- on Saturday we played the first turn
- on Sunday we puzzled all counters back into their trays
:D
 
Looks great Rick! I'll take that FJ Division or Regiment or Kampfgruppe.
 
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