Valentines v Pz III's Tourney Archive - for tactical study

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PoorOldSpike

Guest
Valentine v PzIII Tourney

(Val IX with 6-pdr, PzIIIJ (late) with 50mm long)

Gentlemen, start your engines!
val-crewman.jpg


Mail me if you want to sign up, pooroldspike at aol dotcom, or post in this thread.
I've just began playing it against a few guys as a normal QB, so I thought I might as well turn it into a Tourney and throw it open to the whole club and send this inscribed cup to the winner.

You play just 2 games (mirror) against me, and whoever gets the best combined % scores (after my scores are subtracted from his) will be the winner, i can't win it myself, i'm the organiser.
Results will go on the FGM Ladder.
Ending date will be midnight Jan 31st 2010 (7 weeks away) which should be ample time to play 2 games over the festive season and also give latecomers plenty of time to sign up anytime before that date.
(This thread can be moved into the Tourney Section later at Bootie's discretion.)

Both machines have interesting advantages/disadvantages, both have about the same armour, but the Val has no MG's.
The Val has a faster turret traverse and better penetrating gun, but only has a 3-man crew and a top speed of only 15mph.

Cmbb June 43 mirror
Meeting Engag. 2000 pts, 20+

Armour category= May only buy Valentine IX's and PzIIIJ(lates)
Infantry=Buy any
Support=Buy any
Vehicles=Buy any
Arty/Air=Buy any

Midday,Dry,extreme fow.

The imported map is same for every game, a chunk of typical mid-Russian countryside
mapabc.jpg



The params give a nice balance of tanks and infantry
params.jpg



Signed up so far-

Cargol FINISHED
Bootie FINISHED
Wardog FINISHED
Willard FINISHED
Jonny FINISHED
Vartuoosi FINISHED
2054172 FINISHED
Enven FINISHED
USS Wyoming FINISHED
Bert Blitzkrieg FINISHED
Airborne Bob FINISHED
Zaraza FINISHED
Nathangun FINISHED
Red Devil UNFINISHED
mTk FINISHED
Andre FINISHED
AntiG3n FINISHED
Seel FINISHED
Mikey FINISHED
Nort FINISHED
Gunner UNFINISHED
Mfred FINISHED
ACSpectre FINISHED
-----------------------------------------------------------------


LEADER BOARD
Completed mirrors. (the red/blue text indicates winner was Russian or German)

1st- Mikey: scored plus 56 (Mikey 78+50=128: POS 22+50=72 so 72 from 128= plus 56) (1st game Mikey won major: 2nd game draw)
2nd- mfred: scored plus 46 (mfred 54+69=123: POS 46+31=77 so 77 from 123= plus 46) (1st game Draw: 2nd game mfred won tac)
3rd- Jonny: scored plus 18 (Jonny 54+55=109: POS 46+45=91 so 91 from 109= plus 18) (Both games Draw)
4th- Cargol: scored plus 14 (Cargol 82+25=107: POS 75+18=93 so 93 from 107= plus 14) (1st game Cargol won major: 2nd game POS won major)
5th- AntiG3n: scored plus 6 (AntiG3n 71+32=103: POS 29+68=97 so 97 from 103= plus 6) (1st game AntiG3n won tac: 2nd game POS won tac)
6th- Bert Blitzkrieg: scored minus 2 (Bert Blitzkrieg 49+50=99: POS 51+50=101 so 99 from 101=minus 2) (Both games Draw)
7th- Bootie: scored minus 10 (Bootie 34+61=95: POS 66+39=105 so 95 from 105= minus 10) (1st game POS won tactical: 2nd game Bootie won minor)
8th- Enven: scored minus 16 (Enven 26+66=92: POS 74=34=108 so 92 from 108= minus 16) (1st game POS won major: 2nd game Enven won tac)
9th- Vartuoosi: scored minus 20 (Vartuoosi 61+29=90: POS 39+71=110 so 90 from 110= minus 20) (1st game POS won major: 2nd game Vartuoosi won minor)
10th- mTk: scored minus 26 (mTk 8+79=87: POS 92+21=113 so 87 from 113= minus 26) (1st game POS won tot : 2nd game mTk won major)
11th- Seel: scored minus 32 (Seel 35+49=84: POS 65+51=116 so 84 from 116= minus 32) (1st game POS won tac: 2nd game draw)
12th- Willard: scored minus 44 (Willard 47+31=78: POS 53+69=122 so 78 from 122=minus 44) (1st game Draw: 2nd game POS won tac)
13th- Andre: scored minus 64 (Andre 57+11=68: POS 43+89=132 so 68 from 132= minus 64) (1st game Andre won minor: 2nd game POS won total)
14th- Airborne Bob: scored minus 66 (Airborne Bob 54+13=67: POS 46+87=133 so 67 from 133= minus 66) (1st game Draw: 2nd game POS won total)
15th- Nort: scored minus 68 (Nort 21+45=66: POS 79+55=134 so 66 from 134= minus 68) (1st game POS won maj: 2nd game draw)
16th- Nathangun:scored minus 72 (Nathangun 11+53=64: POS 89+47=136 so 64 from 136=minus 72) (1st game POS won tot: 2nd game Draw)
17th- USS Wyoming: scored minus 76 (USS Wyoming 30+32=62: POS 70+68=138 so 62 from 138= minus 76) (POS won both, tac and tac)
18th- Wardog: scored minus 78 (Wardog 8+53=61: POS 92+47=139 so 61 from 139= minus78) (1st game POS won total: 2nd game draw)
19th- 2054172: scored minus 96 (2054172 34+16=50: POS 84+62=146 so 50 from 146= minus 96) ( POS won both total and minor)
Joint 20th- ACSpectre: scored minus 98 (ACSpectre 43+8=51: POS 57+92=149 so 51 from 149= minus 98) ( POS won both minor and total)
Joint 20th-Zaraza: scored minus 98 (Zaraza 15+36=51: POS 85+64=149 so 51 from 149= minus 98) ( POS won both tot and tac)
22nd/23rd- Gunner and Red Devil unfinished
 
Re: New Tourney: Valentines v Pz III's

My German drive on the flag stalls in the face of Cargol's solid Valentine wall; I lose these 5 panzers for the loss of only about 2 Vals..

carg-valA.jpg
 
Re: New Tourney: Valentines v Pz III's

1- My column of 5x Vals engages a group of Vartuoosi's panzers at long range..
var2.jpg
 
Re: New Tourney: Valentines v Pz III's

2- The German view; the action is ongoing with both sides losing one machine each so far..
vart1b.jpg
 
Re: New Tourney: Valentines v Pz III's

My German infantry press home their advance on the flag under fire despite being stripped of their armoured support by a lethal hail of Wardog's Valentine fire from the far side of the valley. (X's indicate panzer wrecks)
wardog1.jpg
 
Re: New Tourney: Valentines v Pz III's

My panzer leader runs into Bootie's Valentine column and is knocked out with the first shot..
boo1.jpg
 
Re: New Tourney: Valentines v Pz III's

It's only turn 1 and already the landscape erupts with unbridled violence as my Vals and mTk's panzers trade long-range fire, their high-velocity shot crisscrossing the map in what fearful peasants will later recall to their enthralled grandchildren as "the battle of the great iron caterpillars"
mtk1.jpg
 
Re: New Tourney: Valentines v Pz III's

As my Valentines advance on 'fast', Jonny's panzers catch them in the side with a surprise thrust..
jonnA.jpg
 
Re: New Tourney: Valentines v Pz III's

I send my Val column to support my big push on the right. Bad call.
It leaves my infantry platoon on the left naked and exposed as they encounter the last thing they wanted to see- Willards panzer group bearing down on them..
willA.jpg
 
Re: New Tourney: Valentines v Pz III's

Groan...just seconds after moving off the start line, my HQ panzer is picked off by a fusillade of shots from Zaraza's Valentine group at long range..
ZarA.jpg
 
Re: New Tourney: Valentines v Pz III's

FGM Ladder Leader 2054172 in action: his well-camouflaged Valentines in the trees subject my exposed panzers to a series of high-velocity 6-pounder shots..
NumbA.jpg
 
Re: New Tourney: Valentines v Pz III's

A closer look at the protaganists

As noted earlier, the Valentines 6-pdr (57mm) gun has superior penetrating capabilities than the Pz III's AP shot, but the panzer might sometimes be issued with a few tungsten rounds which has better penetration than the 6-pdr.
Both types armour is roughly equal and they can both penetrate each others front upper hull fairly easily with AP rounds at shorter ranges, but in a long range frontal duel (at about 1000 metres or more) the Val has the edge because its larger-calibre 57mm round retains its hitting power, whereas the panzers smaller 50mm-cal AP and tungsten rounds run out of steam and find it difficult to penetrate the Vals upper hull front. We're seeing that in the games.
The Val has no MG's which is a serious historical design flaw because it can't cut down enemy infantry, although it can fire HE at them.
It's also very slow (15 mph max), but its turret traverse is fast.

Val-IX.jpg







PzIII.jpg
 
Re: New Tourney: Valentines v Pz III's

The 2 man turret is also a serious disadvantage to the vals, means the commander is also the gunner, this reduces the accuracy of the tank and if the commander gets KO'd the reloader has to act as gunner increasing reload times.

However with rarity on the valentines certainly work out a lot cheaper than the panzers
 
Re: Valentines v Pz III's Tourney

slopes of terrian a factor big time also...my Vals got caught facing down hill and many top hits happening.
 
Re: Valentines v Pz III's Tourney

While my panzer column ponces about on the left, Airborne Bob's Val column seizes the main flag unopposed without a shot being fired!
AB1-1.jpg
 
Re: Valentines v Pz III's Tourney

In the mirror, my Red Army has control of most of the flags (red wavy line denotes Russian front line), but Airborne Bob launches two major panzer thrusts and every tank group on the map begins exchanging high-velocity armour-piercing rounds..
AB2-1.jpg
 
Re: Valentines v Pz III's Tourney

Bootie's German infantry seizes the main flag, supported by a panzer group (blue circle) which is pouring fire into the head of my advancing Russian infantry, stopping them in their tracks. My Val group (red ring) are powerless to intervene, having no LOS on the German machines and also unable to fire smoke shells (the Val doesn't carry them) to protect my infantry from the withering panzer fire..
Boo2.jpg
 
Re: Valentines v Pz III's Tourney

Enven's Yak 9 unleashes 2 rockets at my panzer leader but amazingly he came through without a scratch..
Env1.jpg
 
Re: Valentines v Pz III's Tourney

Apparently my pilots been drinking a bit o' vodka...damn Ivan...
 
Re: Valentines v Pz III's Tourney

In a breathtaking display of almost superhuman valour, USS Wyomings russian car races unscathed to the flag under a hail of fire from my approaching panzer group..
Wyo1.jpg
 
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