Valentines v Pz III's Tourney Archive - for tactical study

PoorOldSpike said:
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Summary- Yet again the PzIII proves the weaker tank, the Germans have only won 3 out of the 38 games so far because although the panzer's tiny 50mm shell penetrates well enough, it lacks killing power, a bit like shooting an elephant with a small .22 handgun, you'll kill it eventually but you'll need a lot of shots to do it..
Click to expand...

The statistics seem to prove you right, but in our games your Panzers killed my Valentines easy enough, and in our other game my 50mm AT guns killed your Valentines often with one hit. The guns of the Panzers had more problems to get a kill. The apparent inconsistency of this game is one of its plusses ! So many factors play a part in a engagement !
 
I was thinking, if this tournament was held in the desert in CMAK the Pzs would pull back ahead, the lack of a 6lber HE shell early on in the valentine production would make AT guns much more potent for the germans.
 
Another important factor is that in the tourney veteran PzIIIJ(lates) cost 151pts each, but vet Vals only cost 105pts each, meaning the Russians have numerical tank superiority, no wonder the panzers are having a rough time of it.
My usual force purchase in the tourney is-
Russian: 13x vet Vals and 7 regular infantry platoons plus some MG's and a couple of crack snipers.
German: 10x vet PzIII's and 7 regular infantry platoons plus a couple of crack snipers.

(Of course, I buy by tank platoon because they come cheaper that way rather than buying individual tanks, same with infantry, they're cheaper if bought by the company; i only mention it here in case some noobs are reading this. So for example when I say I bought 13 Vals, it means I buy 2 platoons containing 5 Vals each, plus 3 individuals)

More notes for noobs- i always buy veteran tanks in CM games because although regulars are cheaper, they're much worse at everything like spotting, rate of fire etc, and even worse they tend to chicken out and slam into reverse at the drop of a hat during combat.
I've seen many good scenarios ruined because the designers overloaded them with useless regular armour, they panic and run round like crackheads when the shooting starts rather than stand their ground like men.
Incidentally I've tried buying crack and elite tanks in the past but the extra cost is not worth the slightly better performance, so I stick to vets..:)
 
Reg tanks are definatly not useless, they are a challenge to use but can definatly be used well. Generally if the scenario is 1500pts or under i buy regs, if it's over that i tend to by vets.
 
RESULT JUST IN

POS v mfred (1st of mirror pair)
Draw, POS 46%: mfred 54%
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Armour losses this game: POS 8: mfred 3
Armour losses in tourney so far: POS=203, Oppos=309
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Mirrors completed- 18/23
Indiv games completed 39/46
POS Played 39, Won 20, Drawn 12, Lost 7
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Endgame view: Final front lines are wavy lines, Armour wrecks are 'X', Flags are outlined in yellow for clarity, north at top.
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Summary- mfred's PzIII's inflicted heavy losses on my Vals because I was in the wrong place at the wrong time (that's war) but I maintained a toehold on enough flags to scrape a Draw..

mfredAx-end.gif
 
RESULT JUST IN

POS v mfred (2nd of mirror pair)
Winner:-mfred tactical vic 69%-31%
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Armour losses this game: POS 7: mfred 5
Armour losses in tourney so far: POS=210, Oppos=314
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Mirrors completed- 19/23
Indiv games completed 40/46
POS Played 40, Won 20, Drawn 12, Lost 8
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Endgame view: Final front lines are wavy lines, Armour wrecks are 'X', Flags are outlined in yellow for clarity, north at top.
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Summary- mfred's Russians almost pocketed my main flag garrison in the salient..

mfredRus-end.gif

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LEADER BOARD UPDATED Mikey still leads!

Only these 4 mirrors to be finished- Zaraza, Red Devil, mTk, Gunner

(full updated leader board is in first post on page 1)
 
RESULT JUST IN

POS v mTk (2nd of mirror pair)
Winner:-mTk major vic 79%-21%
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Armour losses this game: POS 10: mTk 7
Armour losses in tourney so far: POS=220, Oppos=321
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Mirrors completed- 20/23
Indiv games completed 41/46
POS Played 41, Won 20, Drawn 12, Lost 9
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Endgame view: Final front lines are wavy lines, Armour wrecks are 'X', Flags are outlined in yellow for clarity, north at top.
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Summary- mTk's Russian hordes overran a huge tract of German territory..

mTkRus-end.gif



Tank Combat Badge cyber-award to mTk for killing all my 10 x tanks-
tankcomb.jpg


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LEADER BOARD UPDATED Mikey still leads!
(full updated leader board is in first post on page 1)

Only these 3 mirrors to be finished before tourney deadline of midnight Jan 31st - Zaraza, Red Devil, Gunner
 
Looking at the map, you'd probably say that was the worst defeat you've suffered so far, but he only got 1% more than mikey, the wonders of CM eh
 
Only three more opponents left...

I can almost taste the Grail...
 
Jonny said:
Looking at the map, you'd probably say that was the worst defeat you've suffered so far, but he only got 1% more than mikey, the wonders of CM eh
Click to expand...

Yes, although mTk seized a lot of real estate deep in the German rear there were no more flags back there,I think I should have put more flags in both sides rear areas as rewards for going deep.
Also I think I should have made the map wider east to west so that our infantry wouldn't have had such an easy time getting to the front line.
On a wider map we'd all have to buy transport for them or make them tank-ride and it would have added a bit more interest to the games.
 
RESULT JUST IN

POS v Gunner (1st of mirror pair)
Winner: POS total 94%-6%
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Armour losses this game: POS 1: Gunner 9
Armour losses in tourney so far: POS=221, Oppos=330
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Mirrors completed- 20/23
Indiv games completed 42/46
POS Played 42, Won 21, Drawn 12, Lost 9
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Endgame view: Final front lines are wavy lines, Armour wrecks are 'X', Flags are outlined in yellow for clarity, north at top.
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Summary- The Vals bigger shell and better armour proved again why hardly any of us win long range shootouts against them

GunnGer-end.gif
 
RESULT JUST IN

POS v Zaraza (2nd of mirror pair)
Winner: POS tactical 64%-36%
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Armour losses this game: POS 5: Zaraza 8
Armour losses in tourney so far: POS=226, Oppos=338
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Mirrors completed- 21/23
Indiv games completed 43/46
POS Played 43, Won 22, Drawn 12, Lost 9
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Endgame view: Final front lines are wavy lines, Armour wrecks are 'X', Flags are outlined in yellow for clarity, north at top.
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Summary- Zaraza misunderstood the purchase screen and didn't buy any infantry, but he fought on like a man without complaining. If I'd known his mistake early in the game I'd have said let's start again..

Zarend.gif

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LEADER BOARD UPDATED Mikey still leads!

Only these 2 mirrors to be finished with only 4 days left in the tourney- Red Devil, Gunner

(full updated leader board is in first post on page 1)
 
MIKEY WINS THE TOURNEY!

ValPzCupMik.gif



FINAL LEADER BOARD

1st- Mikey: scored plus 56
2nd- mfred: scored plus 46
3rd- Jonny: scored plus 18
4th- Cargol: scored plus 14
5th- AntiG3n: scored plus 6
6th- Bert Blitzkrieg: scored minus 2
7th- Bootie: scored minus 10
8th- Enven: scored minus 16
9th- Vartuoosi: scored minus 20
10th- mTk: scored minus 26
11th- Seel: scored minus 32
12th- Willard: scored minus 44
13th- Andre: scored minus 64
14th- Airborne Bob: scored minus 66
15th- Nort: scored minus 68
16th- Nathangun:scored minus 72
17th- USS Wyoming: scored minus 76
18th- Wardog: scored minus 78
19th- 2054172: scored minus 96
Joint 20th- ACSpectre and Zaraza: scored minus 98
Joint 22nd- Gunner and Red Devil (unfinished)

(For full breakdown of scoring percentage data etc see first post on page 1)
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How he did it, screenshots from the competition-

MIKEY as RUSSIAN

My 5-strong panzer group (bott right) were reduced to 2 machines in an earlier tank battle and the survivors dare not advance further into the teeth of Mikey's approaching Valentines and a static gun (white circle) which is now shelling my infantry probe.
My infantry garrison at the large flag (blue circle top left) is therefore now out on a limb, unsupported and perilously exposed..
Mik3.jpg





My 4 x panzers (blue ring) huddle on static garrison duty in the shelter of the wood hoping to maintain a presence to keep the flag neutral, but Mikey launches a 3-pronged Valentine attack and rips them to pieces in the crossfire..
Mik8b.gif




Mikey's Russians overun my flag outpost..
Miky5.gif




Endgame map
POS v Mikey (1st of mirror pair)
Winner Mikey (Russian) Major vic 78%-22%
Armour losses: POS=10, Mikey=8
Mikey-end1.png



Tank Combat Badge cyber-award to Mikey for killing all my armour (10 panzers)
tankcomb.jpg

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MIKEY as GERMAN

Mikey's halftrack coolly reverses a gun into position in front of the approaching Red Army..
Mik1.jpg




Inset- Mikey's German light artillery barrage knocked out my centre Valentine, but it wasn't til the end of the game that the shooter was spotted, an 81mm mortar (main picture)..
Mikey81mort.gif




Endgame map
POS v Mikey (2nd of mirror pair)
Draw (Mikey Ger) 50%-50%
Armour losses: POS=13, Mikey=12
MikeyAx-end.gif


Tank Combat Badge cyber-award to Mikey for killing all my armour (13 Vals)

tankcomb.jpg

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DEBRIEF

Mikey killed all my armour in both games (my losses 23, his losses 20),and pocketed most of my force in the second, he got a Major vic in the first game and a Draw in the second, so he's a worthy winner.
We can now all go home and hang up our swords and sit in front of a log fire telling our relatives, children and grandchildren of our exploits on the field of battle..:)

'Tis evening on the moorland free,
The starlit wave is still:
Home is the sailor from the sea,
The hunter from the hill.
- A.E. Housman 1859-1936

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And at last,
the culmination of supreme effort,
terrible trials and tumultous tribulations...

Glorys' beneficent bestowal,
the titular trophy,
rapturous reward...

Victory's prize,
care of UK Air Mail!

Tourneyvictory.jpg
 
And he gets the girl!

Trophies are forever..
In the far distant future, long after the earth has exploded in a global catastrophe, an alien vessel probes the debris field-

"What are they Commander?"
Artifacts.png



"Battle trophies bearing the names of honourable ancient warriors"
CmndrKor.jpg
 
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