Ardennes Firefight Tourney Archive- for tactical study

[PoorOldSpike]

GAME 4 of 25 FINISHED
POS v Rico
Winner POS, tac vic

Armour at start:-
Rico: 5x Sher105, 1x Chaffee, 2x Lt armour
POS: 1x Panther, 3x PzIVlong, 1x Stug-long, 2x Lt armour

The key centre flag was in open exposed terrain, so we both spent most of the game stalemated and edging slowly towards it until my panzers braved tank and bazooka fire to seize it lategame-

TACTICAL NOTE- In some games the computer gives some of us Sherman 105's as in this game, so I ran tests to see how good they are against standard Pz IV's-
When issued with hollow-charge (HC) shells, the Sher105 can make mincemeat of PzIV's, even against their front armour.
But when firing standard HE shells, the Sher105 rarely penetrates the PzIV frontally, but does slightly better against the PzIV sides.

I also ran similar tests to see how good the Stug105 is against standard Shermans-
When firing HC, the Stug105 makes mincemeat of Shermans, even in the front armour.
But when firing HE, the Stug105 rarely penetrates the Sherman frontally, but it does much better against the sides.

Note- The Sher105 and Stug105's guns have a lower muzzle velocity than standard guns and their accuracy therefore suffers at longer ranges.

 

[Rico]

Yes, tricky battle as my Sherman 105's came with virtually no AP HC ammo... the one with a decent load got it's gun damaged in an arty barrage that POS laid down.... arrgh!
Also, the 105 Shermans refused to stand and shoot, usually immediatedly upon spotting the Panther & PzIV's laid down smoke and reversed without a shot being fired... also their slow rate of fire a big draw-back if they miss with the first shot.

A tricky tactical challenge... good match.

 

[PoorOldSpike]

Rico and me discussed after the battle-

RICO quote- interesting battle -- all I basically had was 105 Shermans with virtually no HC ammo -- the one that had the most (4), was gun damaged in your first arty barrage -- so a more aggressive use of your Panther could've paid off

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POS quote- Ah but I thought you might have some Sher 76mm big-hitters lurking somewhere, to say nothing of bazookas, so on the whole I didn't want to throw the Panther around too much in case you got easy side shots on it.
The comp has given me Sher105's in some battles too, it's the luck of the draw..
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PS- In the tests I ran, the big 105mm HE shells (Sher and Stug) have such a big blast that even if they hit and don't penetrate, the chances of causing an immobilisation or internal flaking (hurting crew) are much higher than smaller HE shells.
Even a 105HE near-miss impacting the ground near a tank can blow it's tracks off (think IED), or you could deliberately target the ground near it with area-fire.

 

[PoorOldSpike]

Let us prey---Owl's flame-track lurking behind the church gives my Americans an illustrated sermon about hellfire and sends them running..

"What happened Henry?"

"When things started getting hot I lit out"

 

[PoorOldSpike]

In an earlier tank engagement with Eniced's panzers straight down the road I lost a Sher75 (x'd), and now an enraged Panther (which took 5 hits without damage) comes rolling threateningly down the road accompanied by 2x PzIV's, so I order my remaining 4x Sher75's to concede the road to the German group and dive off into the snowfields to hopefully get into the Panthers thin side armour..

 

[PoorOldSpike]

There's an old fighter pilot saying- "It's the one you don't see that gets you", and the same applies to ground warfare; my 2x probing Sher105's hear an ominous whooshing sound from the church and one goes down. Seconds later Wardog's schreck guy materialises like a ghost on the upper floor..

 

[PoorOldSpike]

MORE ABOUT HOLLOW-CHARGE SHELLS

Further to my earlier comments about hollow-charge shells, I should add that if they strike the target armour at an angle their penetration performance is severely degraded, as the following game data screens makes clear. Notice how their punch is roughly halved when striking at 60 degrees intead of square-on.
I'm noticing it in gameplay all the time as HC fails to penetrate when hitting at an angle.
Noob note- hollow charge shells (HC) are like high-explosive shells except all their explosive force is directed forwards in a concentrated jet which can punch a hole through armour much better than ordinary HE shells can.
But HC has two drawbacks: firstly it leaves the barrel at a lower muzzle velocity than armour-piercing shells and is therefore not as accurate at longer ranges; and secondly HC shells lose a lot of punch if striking obliquely, as already mentioned.
(Incidentally, notice in the stats how the HC penetration figures remain exactly the same at all ranges, that's because the explosive power is the same whether it detonates against a tank at close range or long range)
To sum up HC shells-- HE is not good against armour, HC is much better, and AP (armour-piercing) is the best, so generally speaking HC falls midway between HE and AP.

 

[PoorOldSpike]

This couple of charts from the FGM Tactics Section show how different types of shells compare. As can be seen, HC is better than HE, but not as good as AP (depending on calibre)
And remember, HC can't hit a barn door at longer ranges, and is very poor at penetrating at an angle.
(Incidentally the Russians never used HC in WW2)

Further charts in the series-
http://www.thefewgoodmen.com/thefgmforum/showthread.php?250-Tank-gun-ratings

 

[PoorOldSpike]

GAME 5 of 25 FINISHED
POS v Breaklight
Winner Breaklight, minor vic 59%-41%

Armour at start:-
Breaklight: 1x Panther, 5x PzIVlong, 2x Lt armour
POS: 4x Chaffee, 3x Sher105, 2x Lt armour

I couldn't halt Breaklight's deep panzer thrusts, especially the one at bottom led by his Panther; my Chaffees scored 7 lategame hits on it (plus a bazooka hit) all without effect and it just kept rolling on..

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LEADER BOARD
(Only the contestants whose score beat mine are shown on it. Colour of name depicts the side they commanded, blue=Ger, green=US)

1st- Breaklight: score 18 (59%-41% minor vic)


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(20 games still to finish before the midnight July 14th tourney deadline)

FINISHED SO FAR:-
Ryohei
Johnsy
Bootie
Rico
Breaklight

 

[PoorOldSpike]

Silent Otto lets his panzers do his talking for him (including a Panther at top right) to give my Sher75's a warm welcome as they enter the village..

 

[PoorOldSpike]

My 3x Sher75's were hoping for a clear run down the right flank into Reich territory, but Earl of Grey's Panther's gun barks "eintritt verboten!" (transl. "on yer bikes"), so I hurriedly slam them into reverse and fire smoke shells to cover them as they withdraw because Sher75's are no match for a Panther frontally..
Meanwhile I detect a Tiger (?) (circled) lurking menacingly with attitude in the background; I'm getting a bad feeling about this..

 

[PoorOldSpike]

MEMO

In case the thought crosses anybody's mind from time to time- "I wonder if POS goes easy on noobs in his tourneys?", I can categorically say NO NO NO!
The only time I go easy is if it's an off-ladder non-tourney fun training game.
In ladder and tourney games it wouldn't be fair on everybody else if I went easy on noobs, so I treat them exactly as I treat any other opponent by trying my damndest to win, and to their credit they never ask me to go easy anyway.
If I win, I usually say "Sorry, but you were trying to kill me, you had some fearsome weapons in your hands which made you bloody DANGEROUS, noob or not, which is why I couldn't cut you any slack"
You don't have to be a military genius to know how to point a gun and pull the trigger..
For example look at this mean little mother on a shellcase-littered bridge in Liberia 2003, he's no doubt a noob to warfare but I'm sure we'd all blow him away the first chance we get..

 

[Earl of Grey]

YOU are getting a bad feeling? You nearly got more tanks than I got men and you're feeling bad? :tongue1:

 

[PoorOldSpike]

YOU are getting a bad feeling? You nearly got more tanks than I got men and you're feeling bad? :tongue1:

It's still early in the game and the fog of war means neither of us can be certain of what each others forces are, and units on both sides may be misidentified, I'm still not positive that's a Panther and Tiger, so until I'm sure I'll have to play it safe.
Heck I even misidentified my own tanks, I thought they were Sher105's but I now see they're Sher75's so i've corrected the earlier screenshot caption!

 

[PoorOldSpike]

As my American infantry painfully edge their way into town inch by inch, I send 3x Sher75's from the left flank to support them, but the cost is high: 2 of them fall victim (X's) to Earl of Grey's Stug/Marder double act at top centre..
(Edit- they both later turned out to be Stug75-longs)

 

[PoorOldSpike]

My German infantry seize the flag but find themselves at the mercy of Antig3n's Sherman; I never committed any of my panzers to this sector because I thought they'd be useless in the dense trees, and as a result his Sherman has a free hand to shoot up the infantry..

The tanks view..

 

[PoorOldSpike]

As the battle for the village rages at top right, Nort sends a Greyhound at high speed in the Starfleet 'Hook Manoeuvre' to hit my Stug column in the flank..

Tail-end Charlie gets it..

 

[Bert Blitzkrieg]

Appearently the Greyhound is a pretty good off-road vehicle for a wheeled one.

 

[PoorOldSpike]

My German recon probe is stopped in its tracks by Breakthrough's Sherman/infantry counterthrust-

 

[PoorOldSpike]

Mikey's Greyhound interdicts the road, and my unsuspecting German infantry column walks into its line of fire..

MEDIC! MEDIC!- The car's tracer rips into my point squad..