Three Towns (Stafford vs Drifter Man DAR)

[Blady]

Or will prompt the Firefly to send a very clear 17pdr message back to the Marder that the hill is in fact his and that no disturbances of the meditation of the Firefly's crew will be tolerated

True.

But that is only if he spots and hits it in the same round, else I'm sure Stafford will retreat. He's not the person who dukes out out a 1-to-1 long range armour battle patiently hoping to win.

 

[Drifter Man]

I think the only thing you could realistically hope for at that range is to disable the gun (which would be great), but at long ranges, it's more rare to actually hit the gun due to increased dispersion ...

I ran a few tests, I could penetrate front turret or hull top (due to the shell trajectory at long range) and make the crew bail out.
But since I've been sitting there for several minutes and don't even have a tentative contact, I don't think this is happening.

 

[Drifter Man]

True.

But that is only if he spots and hits it in the same round, else I'm sure Stafford will retreat. He's not the person who dukes out out a 1-to-1 long range armour battle patiently hoping to win.

No, he isn't - even when the pair of Fireflies attacked earlier it was out of his character, I think.

 

[Drifter Man]

1339 hrs, Turn 49. As two platoons of the 6th company are running across the "Bowl" separating me from Hill 36, my opponent has already registered that something is going on. The tank contact I made a minute earlier turns out to be a Cromwell, which fires several rounds in the general direction of the advancing troops. A sniper also joins in at long range. No casualties so far.

Meanwhile an interesting situation develops at the Orchard. I attacked with just 5 men who quickly found themselves in a difficult situation. An unseen enemy is firing from deeper in the Orchard - estimated about half of a rifle section, plus a 2in mortar also joins in. They also get under fire from the south, where a British scout section occupies the hills north of Louvoy (basically a mirror position to my own scouts on the North Ridge). No casualties have been taken yet, but I don't expect to achieve much from these guys - I just hope they don't die too quickly and keep the enemy occupied while the artillery is coming. I also expect Stafford's light armor to show up - a Stuart or a Crusader AA, I know he wants to make use of his toys. So I don't want to commit a larger force. It is just a diversion while the focus remains on Hill 36.

 

[Bulletpoint]

I ran a few tests, I could penetrate front turret or hull top (due to the shell trajectory at long range) and make the crew bail out.
But since I've been sitting there for several minutes and don't even have a tentative contact, I don't think this is happening.

Ok, not sure how the odds are in the game. Was basing it on seeing my own shots bounce off your firefly in our game. (at 1300m I think?)

And on the Pencalc website that says 1600m should be the absolute maximum for even the "penetration unlikely" zone. The calculator assumes the shell hits straight on though, so if it comes down on the top hull things might be different.

 

[KGBoy]

The version in CMBN (appears with the Market Garden module as I've just found) is the SdKfz. 131 armed with the boring 7.5cm Pak 40

FYI on the 7.5cm Marder version:

There were cases of penetrating the T-34’s turret side armor at a range of 1200 m, along with another case of destroying an American-supplied Lee tank at the same range.

On the negative side, the average rate of fire was only 5 rounds per minute due to the large size of the ammunition and the rear-positioned storage bin. In addition, firing more than 5 rounds caused the accumulation of a smoke cloud in front of the vehicle. Additional problems were the poor quality of the muzzle brake assembly which usually became loose after only 8 to 10 shots.

 

[Drifter Man]

Ok, not sure how the odds are in the game. Was basing it on seeing my own shots bounce off your firefly in our game. (at 1300m I think?)

And on the Pencalc website that says 1600m should be the absolute maximum for even the "penetration unlikely" zone. The calculator assumes the shell hits straight on though, so if it comes down on the top hull things might be different.

The Fireflies were hit at a closer range, around 800 m. It depends on where it hits. Sherman's sloped upper hull front begins deflecting the PaK40 already at ~450 meters, depending on the angle. In contrast, the turret face and weapon mount are vulnerable even at long distances.
The bounces were off the upper hull plate, but you also disabled one of my 75mm Shermans at 1200 meters with a hit through turret face or weapon mount.
Good to keep in mind though that the Firefly has a stronger gun mantlet than the 75mm Shermans.

 

[Drifter Man]

FYI on the 7.5cm Marder version:

There were cases of penetrating the T-34’s turret side armor at a range of 1200 m, along with another case of destroying an American-supplied Lee tank at the same range.

On the negative side, the average rate of fire was only 5 rounds per minute due to the large size of the ammunition and the rear-positioned storage bin. In addition, firing more than 5 rounds caused the accumulation of a smoke cloud in front of the vehicle. Additional problems were the poor quality of the muzzle brake assembly which usually became loose after only 8 to 10 shots.

I'll keep that in mind for when Stafford rolls out his T-34s. Anything is possible
5 rounds per minute is a decent rate of fire in CM. I haven't tested the Marder for this but the Pz IV and Panther have a 12-second firing cycle at 800 meters (regular crews). That's 5 per minute. Can get over 6 at very close ranges.

 

[Drifter Man]

1342 hrs, Turns 50-52. 6th Company has been advancing across the open terrain towards Hill 36, so far without casualties. My opponent is trying to get indirect mortar fire on the advancing troops, but I believe he will be too slow - as long as I keep moving I should be fine. However, the troops that reached the western slope of the Hill are Fatigued after the long run and I will have to give them a break. As I get more men closer to the Hill, I finally confirm there are three snipers - two teams are reduced to one man, the third one has both. I wasn't sure about that and thought there only were two snipers. One gets attacked at close range but the MG42 hits everything but the man (my team is Rattled from casualties so I don't blame them). The Englishman remains calm and tosses a grenade to cover his retreat. Fortunately no one is hit on my side, etiher. I am starting to think these snipers have some survivor bonus or something. So many times I have hit them with artillery and other things, and they always just get up, retreat and then sneak back. They haven't caused many casualties, but I've spent so much ammo to get rid of them, to no avail.

I can also hear three tanks repositioning behind the hill - they may be there to stop me once I try to get across the crest, or they may be up to something else. We'll see.



5th Company exerts some pressure at the center to keep my opponent occupied. Again, my fire is ineffective. I can see two British one-man teams with Brens (probably recovered from casualties) defending the area. An unknown HQ unit is seen sneaking into a crater. A 2in mortar supports them, one of my men suffers a light injury from the fragments.

Operation Longshot is called off - it is obvious that the Marder cannot see the target. I have pulled it back to a better hull-down position in case other threats show up on this flank.

Things have fallen quiet again at the Orchard. An enemy sniper (that makes five of them facing me now) fires from the hills north of Louvoy while I am waiting for mortars, whose spotting rounds fall around the Orchard. An AT gun contact is reported in Louvoy and I think I can drop some 150mm HE on it there.

 

[Bulletpoint]

The Englishman remains calm and tosses a grenade to cover his retreat.

Those bloody Brits

 

[Bulletpoint]

Operation Longshot is called off - it is obvious that the Marder cannot see the target. I have pulled it back to a better hull-down position in case other threats show up on this flank.

Ah, too bad. I was looking forward to seeing if I would be right about the distance. I'm guessing that the Firefly left and that that's why you couldn't spot it at the expected location.

 

[Drifter Man]

Those bloody Brits

I like that. Very British.

 

[Drifter Man]

Ah, too bad. I was looking forward to seeing if I would be right about the distance. I'm guessing that the Firefly left and that that's why you couldn't spot it at the expected location.

I can see it right there - one of my infantry units is watching it. The Marder was supposed to see it (it had a reverse slope LOS on the location) but it turns out it couldn't.
The good news is that the Firefly has had hatches closed all this time, which could indicate a crew loss from the hit. But again, Stafford may just be cautious and keeping the crew protected while he is not using the tank.
I can get a StuG to near the infantry unit that has eyes on the target... but it is risky because the StuG will have to be moving in the LOS of the Firefly. But now that operation Longshot has failed I should reconsider. One way or another that tank needs to go.

 

[KGBoy]

Getting exciting! What, no pics of your troops doing a full out run for the hill?

Curious, it feels like Stafford really didn't have a plan after taking Hill 36 or do you think something is hatching?

 

[Larsen]

You need to use the C2 chain to let Marder know about the Firefly.

 

[Bulletpoint]

Curious, it feels like Stafford really didn't have a plan after taking Hill 36 or do you think something is hatching?

My guess would be that he simply went over to defence now that he has 2 out of 3 objectives under his control. He knows Drifter can't win unless he attacks.

 

[Bulletpoint]

I can get a StuG to near the infantry unit that has eyes on the target... but it is risky because the StuG will have to be moving in the LOS of the Firefly. But now that operation Longshot has failed I should reconsider. One way or another that tank needs to go.

"Operation Shortshot" doesn't really have the same sound to it, but maybe if you smoked the Firefly, you could relocate the StuG safely and then blast him once the smoke clears?

 

[Drifter Man]

Getting exciting! What, no pics of your troops doing a full out run for the hill?

Curious, it feels like Stafford really didn't have a plan after taking Hill 36 or do you think something is hatching?

The sight is not particularly exciting - they are spread out in space in time so they don't get hit all at once if Stafford pulls something off. But I'll add a pic of the Bowl in my next report
As @Bulletpoint observed, Stafford does not seem to be very motivated to take risks for the moment. He wants a win and attacking is risky.

You need to use the C2 chain to let Marder know about the Firefly.

C2 links are up and the infantry passed the contact to a nearby StuG, but the contact has not cascaded through the assault gun company to the Marder. It may be stuck at the Company HQ vehicle, which has a damaged radio and the Commander is occupied with manning the gun.

"Operation Shortshot" doesn't really have the same sound to it, but maybe if you smoked the Firefly, you could relocate the StuG safely and then blast him once the smoke clears?

We'll find a catchy name.
I think I'll go for it without smoke. The smoke could give him time to withdraw or prepare something else.

 

[Drifter Man]

1343 hrs, Turn 53. The rattled troops of the 5th Company are again thrown back at the Center, this time without casualties. Both sides are low on morale after all the losses, so it's a lot of shooting and very little hitting. At least I listen to the noise to map out enemy positions. The dashed line shows where the enemy tanks can fire. Kill zone.



And while I have called off operation Longshot and am pondering the right name for operation Shortshot, operation Bigshot is an unexpected success. The Cromwell on the hill is nearly missed by a 150mm shell - and when the dust settles, I no longer hear the engine running. So as a minimum it is immobilized. I have been dropping artillery on it for a few minutes, so I am happy it has paid off.



Here is the promised picture of 6th Company running through the Bowl. Some teams are getting Exhausted and will need a proper break after reaching the hill. Again, the dashed line is a potential kill zone where my opponent can shoot if he puts tanks on the South Ridge (in a place where he would still be protected by the trees from getting spotted and shot at by the StuGs).



Finally, operation Kurzschuss is about to begin. The range is 1200 meters, so it is not exactly a short shot. The StuG has a tentative contact but cannot see the Firefly. The troops in front - a mortar team and a panzergrenadier team - can see the tank. I will put the StuG in between the two units and see what happens.

 

[Blady]

Finally, operation Kurzschuss is about to begin.

Thanks for all the updates again. Loving the action, learning a lot form it as well. Hope the new operation is a total success!

Out of curiosity: why the pause in between the fast commands for the Stug?