There's currently a debate raging in the staff about whether it should be "Operation Kurzschuss" or "Operation Kurzere Langschuss"
Three Towns (Stafford vs Drifter Man DAR)
- Thread starter Drifter Man
- Start date
I want to make sure that the StuG does not pop up in the final seconds of the turn, giving my opponent an opportunity to react in the command phase.
Thanks for all the updates again. Loving the action, learning a lot form it as well. Hope the new operation is a total success!
Out of curiosity: why the pause in between the fast commands for the Stug?
But it is unnecessary because the maneuver is complicated and will take maybe 2 minutes to complete.
Let's hope its doesn't go down in history as "Operation Keinschuss" again.
B
Blady
Guest
Yeah, the 90 degree turn after the reverse takes a while. I have made myself the habit of making an addition, very short 45 degree turn extra, then straight forward that same stretch making a sort of Y movement. The rationale is that turning while moving is faster then standing still. Never tested it though, so no idea if it's actually true....
Interesting - this could solve the problems I'm having with the Move order in a different direction after Reverse, too.
But this time there is not enough space because of this other stone wall. I have taken this path three times already in this game - that spot next to the building is a good one but hard to get into - so I'm pretty sure I'll need two minutes.
B
Blady
Guest
I'm really wondering what it is doing sitting there for so long. Is he deliberately testing your ability to react to it? Is he willing to sacrifice a firefly simply to find out how much AT assets you have left after the air attacks?
It just seems so... weird to keep having it sitting in plain view.
Leaving is dangerous - the StuGs can see most of the hill except the little depression where the vehicles are hiding. So maybe he thinks his best chance is to keep it there as a threat to my flank. And maybe it hasn't taken any serious damage and is ready for a fight - and my StuG will soon find out the hard way.
All those possibilities
L
Larsen
Guest
I wonder if you place an infantry unit that has an information about the Firefly next to Marder will Marder get the message?
Can the units that are not HQ units share the information horizontally between different organizational structures?
Can the units that are not HQ units share the information horizontally between different organizational structures?
I think he realises Drifter doesn't have that much more in the bag when it comes to tanks. Because it would make little sense to first probe a bit with StuGs and then much later suddenly bring out Panthers or other AT.
Secondly, he knows that if anything wants to challenge the Firefly, that vehicle needs to move into LOS.
Thirdly, he's counting on the distance to save him. At long ranges, a fast gun like the 17 pounder gives a big advantage to landing the first shot.
Finally, he knows there's a decent chance to bounce a PaK40 shot at long range, while nothing will save the German vehicles against the 17 pounder.
But who knows. Maybe he just had too many Foster's
In a battle against Josey Wales, I forgot to pull back a key armoured car, from next to a building and it got Panzerfausted. A bottle of red wine played at least some part in that.
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K
KGBoy
Guest
Makes sense but bringing those Fireflies out a few minutes back makes even less sense if that is the case. Maybe that result changed his stance from offense to defence.
K
KGBoy
Guest
Tanks DM! Real pretty. Is that 900 metres or so? All one go? On Quick or Fast? Intact squads or teams? They look spread out. I am surprised there was no LOS. Just dropping a steady harassment barrage across the area would probably have dissuaded you?
K
KGBoy
Guest
Hopefully this will work. Apologies as a newbie if not.
And let me know if this is irrelevant but I can turn a tank 180 in 33 seconds:
And let me know if this is irrelevant but I can turn a tank 180 in 33 seconds:
I don't know how the sharing works in this respect. The infantry that sees the Firefly has its platoon HQ nearby, which sits next to the StuG, so the contact may have come to the StuG via the platoon HQ - but not via the C2 links of the StuG company, because other StuGs did not receive this contact.
I've sent another infantry unit to the place where the Marder stood. Maybe they can see the enemy tank from there and pass the info to the Marder.
I go with the "too risky to leave" hypothesis. His halftrack and truck also remained on the hill. I think he would want to move them away.I think he realises Drifter doesn't have that much more in the bag when it comes to tanks. Because it would make little sense to first probe a bit with StuGs and then much later suddenly bring out Panthers or other AT.
Secondly, he knows that if anything wants to challenge the Firefly, that vehicle needs to move into LOS.
Thirdly, he's counting on the distance to save him. At long ranges, a fast gun like the 17 pounder gives a big advantage to landing the first shot.
Finally, he knows there's a decent chance to bounce a PaK40 shot at long range, while nothing will save the German vehicles against the 17 pounder.
But who knows. Maybe he just had too many Foster's
Teams of four men. I was sending one per minute via different routes, using Quick. Hill 36 is hot ground due to mortar fire and MGs so perhaps he no longer has LOS from there, but he has LOS from elsewhere. Although the is trying to bring a mortar barrage on me, it takes time and I think I am fast enough this time.
A steady harassment barrage... depends. Maybe I would try to find a way through or around. Depends on the space covered and intensity.
Interesting! I though the Face order would give the same rotation speed, but yes, turning like this is much faster. I was able to turn a Sherman 180 degrees in 29 seconds using this method. With the Face order it takes 44 seconds.
K
KGBoy
Guest
I was just reading a thread over at BFCM site about that very thing. I think chuckdyke used the tank open hatched to relay commands from a forward PHQ to mortar (near the tank) for a strike. The only radio nearby was the tank. I'll try to find it.
Two units next to each other will share info about contacts, no matter if they are from different formations. Tanks don't need to be opened up.
Yes - it seems that's how it works. Good they can talk to each other.
That's also interesting - but not consistent with my experience - that a nearby vehicle with a radio can keep a mortar team linked to its HQ. I usually bunch up mortars around their HQ unit if I want to use them for indirect fire.
1346 hrs, Turns 54-56. A few more minutes passed without major events or casualties on my side, but I am getting under some fire now at the Center (approach to Louvoy). Also, I sent forward a team from 1/6 Platoon on Hill 33 and it got shot at by a Cromwell tank on the southern slope of Hill 36. It's not cool to watch a 75mm HE passing through the trees just above your troops.
The other Cromwell, which was nearly missed by a 150mm a few minutes ago, was not destroyed - I can't say I am not disappointed, I once lost a StuG to a 155mm that exploded overhead, so perhaps I am overestimating the effect of those heavy HE shells against fully protected AFVs based on this experience. Only a direct hit will do. But the vehicle is clearly immobilized and my opponent has ordered it to area fire various places to make use of its ammo. It will take a while though before I can get close to the Cromwell with infantry and attempt to destroy it - it won't be easy. In addition, I made a difficult decision and called off the 150mm strike on the area after the last shell nearly hit my fresh troops from the 6th Company. This means that I will lose a flexible and powerful support tool against Hill 36, but I will keep the ammo for later.
Another strike I called off is the mortar strike on the Orchard. Thanks to my scouts I identified the enemy positions and targeted them with a mortar fire mission, but after about 5 minutes of spotting, none of the spotting shells fell anywhere near the intended target. When "fire for effect" was finally called, I had no confidence it would hit what I wanted, and ordered the mortar to cease fire. The HQ unit directing it had good LOS on the target and on most of the spotting rounds, but sometimes this just isn't enough. I'll try again.
Operation Kurzschuss: the StuG has been facing the Firefly for around 50 seconds now but still only has a tentative contact. The Firefly shows no reaction. I have also returned the Marder to the position from where it should be able to see the target.
The other Cromwell, which was nearly missed by a 150mm a few minutes ago, was not destroyed - I can't say I am not disappointed, I once lost a StuG to a 155mm that exploded overhead, so perhaps I am overestimating the effect of those heavy HE shells against fully protected AFVs based on this experience. Only a direct hit will do. But the vehicle is clearly immobilized and my opponent has ordered it to area fire various places to make use of its ammo. It will take a while though before I can get close to the Cromwell with infantry and attempt to destroy it - it won't be easy. In addition, I made a difficult decision and called off the 150mm strike on the area after the last shell nearly hit my fresh troops from the 6th Company. This means that I will lose a flexible and powerful support tool against Hill 36, but I will keep the ammo for later.
Another strike I called off is the mortar strike on the Orchard. Thanks to my scouts I identified the enemy positions and targeted them with a mortar fire mission, but after about 5 minutes of spotting, none of the spotting shells fell anywhere near the intended target. When "fire for effect" was finally called, I had no confidence it would hit what I wanted, and ordered the mortar to cease fire. The HQ unit directing it had good LOS on the target and on most of the spotting rounds, but sometimes this just isn't enough. I'll try again.
Operation Kurzschuss: the StuG has been facing the Firefly for around 50 seconds now but still only has a tentative contact. The Firefly shows no reaction. I have also returned the Marder to the position from where it should be able to see the target.
Artilley is massively undermodelled against armour in CM. There was a huge thread on the forums about it where some guy went to extreme lengths to prove it, including modelling impacts and fragments of various sizes against various vehicles using what I believe is quite advanced engineering software. His point was that at close (but surprisingly long) range, HE fragments travel so fast that they will go straight through quite a lot of armour. Including the sides and rears of many tanks.
In game, you need a direct hit. But in that case, you can take out prettyh much any tank with 150mm. I've seen Tiger IIs taken out that way at least.
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I think you might be misunderstanding the spotting system here. The important thing is not whetherthe spotting rounds land close to the target - it's whether the spotter sees the spotting rounds. He needs to spot a certain number of them, and then the strike will come in on target.
I've made a different observation. The last spotting round before the fire for effect call falls close to target. It may be the second or even first round, if you are lucky, then the mission starts much earlier than predicted. It may be the fifth or sixth if you are less lucky.
But sometimes, like in this case, all spotting round fall far off and the spotter eventually calls fire for effect anyway. I have never tried what happens then, because I've read *somewhere* on the Battlefront forum the mission will be off target. So I cancel the mission before the ammo is wasted and try again.