Bootie reads the bible....

[zaraza]

But the evidence of creation is all around us, how can you dismiss the evidence of your own eyes and senses?

You mean nature?
Well, it isn't that weird.
And guess what, it behaves like it should. We can make predictions, based on our science, and it will be accurate.

Why would bible writers lie?

Because it was product for masses. Nobody would buy poorly written manual...and in that time people were uneducated and illiterate, but were asking answer...What is thunder, what is plague, what is storm. It's easy, it's good, and if you do not listen to us (priests) this will happen to you.

Nah, for example science can't explain the sulfur balls at Sodom/Gomorrah as Bootie pointed out...

MMmmm....do you even read what i'm writing?

Scientists are puzzled when electrons are fired through a double-slit because they behave like waves, whereas they're not waves, they're particles of matter.

What's the point non stop "Science can't explain this, science can't explain that" statements?
Does that make bible true?
No.
Does that make science unrealible?
No.
Does that mean that science can't explain/do that in the future?
No.

As you can see that argument is bull****. To me, it sounds like sound of dying wizards who can not compete with progress any more.

Btw, that....cartoon...is incomplete. It forgets to mention how do they watch it...
Nevermind, we already know a lot about quantum mechanics and physics, and we will know even more when LHC completes it's experiments.

 

[zaraza]

Zaraza you may not believe in God but do you believe the laws set down within the bible are good guides on how to live?

If we remove every part of the bible that mentions death, destruction, fire, misery, pain, illnes and other joys, then maybe yes.
But, that's impossible...in that case believers have nothing to be feared off...And we all know that fear is base of religion.

 

[Bootie]

You didnt answer the question. Do you believe the laws set down in the bible are good moral ones to abide by... simple yes or no please?

 

[zaraza]

You didnt answer the question. Do you believe the laws set down in the bible are good moral ones to abide by... simple yes or no please?

I answered best i can.
I can not override terror that god causes and, like consequence of it, people behaving good.
Are they behaving good because they are frighten or because some moral was born in them?

 

[Bootie]

Ok well thats not an answer.

Ok try it this way.

If God was taken out of the equation do you believe the laws set down in the bible are good ones to run your life by?

 

[PoorOldSpike]

POS quote- Why would bible writers lie?

Zaraza reply- Because it was product for masses. Nobody would buy poorly written manual...and in that time people were uneducated and illiterate, but were asking answer...What is thunder, what is plague, what is storm. It's easy, it's good, and if you do not listen to us (priests) this will happen to you

POS response- But what was the priests motive?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Zaraza quote- we all know that fear is base of religion

POS reply- Ha ha, christians don't do 'fear'..
Bear Grylls isn't afraid of anything, he says on his website "My Christian faith is my backbone"

 

[Bootie]

Bear Grylls is just great by the way.

Anyone who can suck water out of camel dung has my admiration.

 

[Bootie]

But anyway again this topic is veering about wildly and I know Zaraza will never see the faith Christians have or buy into it and POS will never believe that science is the answer to everything. It like skipping round the mulberry bush... you go round and round and get nowhere. Why bother?

 

[zaraza]

If God was taken out of the equation do you believe the laws set down in the bible are good ones to run your life by?[/SIZE]

Same thing
If those laws were set without fear of punishment, i would say - yes, they are good laws, everything is nice.

POS response- But what was the priests motive?

Hm...power? Ignorance?

POS reply- Ha ha, christians don't do 'fear'..

If they are behaving because they don't want go to hell, and if they are rejecting other gods for the same reason, they do.
You said it yourself.

"The bible supports free will too, it gives us free choice to accept Jesus or reject him."
Basically, believe in me, or burn in hell.

 

[zaraza]

But anyway again this topic is veering about wildly and I know Zaraza will never see the faith Christians have or buy into it and POS will never believe that science is the answer to everything. It like skipping round the mulberry bush... you go round and round and get nowhere. Why bother?

I get carried away sometimes

 

[Bootie]

I dont actually mind as long as its kept as civil as it has been up to this point. Im certainly enjoying reading it as Im sure others are to. Its good to see other opinions as long as those opinions dont degrade to name calling or get personal. Carry on.

 

[PoorOldSpike]

No offence, but atheists always seem to be a little nervous and anxious and fearful, permanently on the edge of a nervous breakdown, Dawkins is a classic example.
By contrast, most christians are kool, calm, relaxed, confident, fearless, just like it says on the box-
"For God did not give us a spirit of timidity, but a spirit of power, of love and of self discipline....that you may stand firm in all the will of God, mature and fully assured"-(2 Tim 1:7,Col 4:12)
That's what atheists can't understand; being a christian isn't just about living by a set of rules like mindless robots, it's a power thing..-
".. our gospel came to you not simply with words, but also with power.." (1 Thess 1:5)

On atheists forums they're always saying how great the philosopher Friedrich Nietzsche was. Huh some role model, the bloke was a lifelong atheist and ended up going insane.
That's because atheists have no spiritual depth or power and see nothing but emptiness leading to despair, just as Nietzsche himself said -"Gaze long into the abyss, and the abyss gazes into you"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friedrich_Nietzsche

 

[PoorOldSpike]

REALITY CHECK

Jesus said:-"I tell you the truth,if you have faith..you can say to this mountain 'Move from here to there' and it WILL move. NOTHING will be impossible for you" (Matt 17:20)

Hence he tells us straight that the supposedly rigid fixed laws of physics CAN be bent by "mindpower",and that our material "reality" is in fact flexible and malleable and that WE TOO can do what he did !
Atheists miss out on a lot of fun by not analysing Jesus's miracles.

For example he could never conjure up anything out of thin air, he always had to have something to work with, to re-arrange the molecular structure. For example he didn't conjure up wine in empty pots, he instructed "fill them up with water" first, then he re-arranged the molecules into 120 gallons of wine.

Likewise he once spit in the dust to make a mud pie to plaster on a blind mans eyes, then re-arranged the molecules into new eyes.

And when he fed the 5000 he used a little bread and fish as "templates" with which to replicate much more..

Jesus was therefore a Master of the Art of 'dream manipulation'.
"You can be in my dream if I can be in your dream" (Bob Dylan)
"Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one.'' - Albert Einstein
"Strawberry Fields, nothing is real" (The Beatles)
"We are such stuff that dreams are made on, and our little life is rounded with a sleep.." (The Tempest)
"What is your life? You are a mist that appears for a little while and then vanishes" (James 4:14)

 

[Hedgehog]

You are right POS about atheists in my opinion they are lost souls, and need to get there selves sorted out, what ever people think, the 10 commandments are the reasons for a good life, and who ever sat down and wrote these had the welfare of man kind at heart, and it wasn't science that had any part of that, so I say if you are a atheists and are doing what the commandments say you are pretty close to being a Christian, what ever you might think you are think again

 

[zaraza]

No offence, but atheists always seem to be a little nervous and anxious

Of course we are nervous.
When you debate with somebody who shows ultimate ignorance, absence of logic and absence of rational thinking it's natural you get nervous.

and fearful,

Of what?

permanently on the edge of a nervous breakdown, Dawkins is a classic example.

Based on what?

By contrast, most christians are kool, calm, relaxed, confident, fearless, just like it says on the box-

Yeah, right
That's why we have almost no crimes in christian countries. That's why priests are prototype of god, etc...

That's what atheists can't understand;

Oh, we do. Problem is that you don't understand that you can be good man without bible.

On atheists forums they're always saying how great the philosopher Friedrich Nietzsche was. Huh some role model, the bloke was a lifelong atheist and ended up going insane.

So what if he was atheist?

That's because atheists have no spiritual depth or power and see nothing but emptiness leading to despair.

This is stupidest thing you said on this 22 pages.
Who gives you, who don't know anything beyond bible to speak like that?
God maybe?

 

[zaraza]

For example he could never conjure up anything out of thin air, he always had to have something to work with, to re-arrange the molecular structure.

Why he didnt rearrange air molecules?
Because, bible writer thought that air is nothing. So he introtuced water.

And when he fed the 5000 he used a little bread and fish as "templates" with which to replicate much more..

Any proof for this?

 

[2054172]

I dont actually mind as long as its kept as civil as it has been up to this point. Im certainly enjoying reading it as Im sure others are to. Its good to see other opinions as long as those opinions dont degrade to name calling or get personal. Carry on.

I believe others are wishing to step in but as you said earier what is the point. I do not agree with all that POS poses as the christian side on these topics, and as for Z's side of things I don't get what point he wants to express at all.
With your readings your questions go un answered for the most part. Continue on sir but I think your missing the main point of the bible OT/NT

 

[PoorOldSpike]

..I do not agree with all that POS poses as the christian side on these topics..

But mate, i back up much of what I say with bible quotes, which ones don't you agree with?

 

[PoorOldSpike]

POS quote-No offence, but atheists always seem to be a little nervous and anxious

Zaraza reply-Of course we are nervous.
When you debate with somebody who shows ultimate ignorance, absence of logic and absence of rational thinking it's natural you get nervous.

POS response- When I read evolution books by Dawks, I agree with some of what he says, but not all of it, because I think it needed god to write the laws of evolution in the first place and then keep tweaking it because evolution is too complex to have created itself.
I think that's a balanced, sensible open-minded view, see I don't say 'Evolution books are rubbish'.
But atheists say 'The Bible is rubbish', which is not a balanced, sensible open-minded thing to say..
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

POS quote- atheists seem..fearful.

Zaraza quote-Of what?

POS reply- Of everything. Christians die laughing, but atheists just die..
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

POS quote- By contrast, most christians are kool, calm, relaxed, confident, fearless, just like it says on the box.

Zaraza reply- Yeah, right
That's why we have almost no crimes in christian countries. That's why priests are prototype of god, etc...

POS answer-There are true christians, and there are false christians, don't mix the two.Jesus said:-"Not all who call me "Lord,Lord" will enter the kingdom of heaven. Then I'll tell them plainly, I never knew you, get away from me" (Matt 7:21-23)
PS- And of course there are some unhappy christians around because they take life's knocks just like everybody else, but usually they know how to roll with the punch. Some christians have even been in prison (like me on a vigilante rap), but generally speaking unhappy and ex-com christians are a minority..
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Zaraza quote- you don't understand that you can be good man without bible.

POS reply- You can. But it goes deeper than that, you have to bond and mindmeld and connect with Jesus and want to be his pal and get him inside your head in order to save your soul.
Jesus said:- "If anyone loves me, he will listen to my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him" (John 14:23)
God and Jesus in your head are like bouncers who stop any nasty unclean entities getting in.
Nobody gets through the pearly gates with a hijacker (demon) aboard..
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

POS quote- atheists have no spiritual depth or power and see nothing but emptiness leading to despair.

Zaraza quote-This is stupidest thing you said on this 22 pages. Who gives you, who don't know anything beyond bible to speak like that?
God maybe?

POS response- I've never met any kool, calm atheists, where are they?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

POS quote- Jesus could never conjure up anything out of thin air, he always had to have something to work with, to re-arrange the molecular structure.

Zaraza- Why he didnt rearrange air molecules?
Because, bible writer thought that air is nothing. So he introtuced water.

POS reply- Gas molecules are not solid matter..
(Mary-"Oh no, the caterers have fouled up and the wines run out for the wedding guests! Hey jesus, can you pull some of that miracle sh*t to help us out?"
Jesus-"Okay,okay (sigh)"..)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

POS quote- when Jesus fed the 5000 he used a little bread and fish as "templates" with which to replicate much more..

Zaraza quote- Any proof for this?

POS reply- There's 5000 eyewitnesses for a start, how many more do you want?

 

[zaraza]

POS response- When I read evolution books by Dawks, I agree with some of what he says, but not all of it, because I think it needed god to write the laws of evolution in the first place and then keep tweaking it because evolution is too complex to have created itself.

You may think god had influence in creating universe and it's laws. But anything after that is not in gods hands.

POS response- I've never met any kool, calm atheists, where are they?

Search, and you will find...But don't ask them are they believers or atheists.

POS reply- Gas molecules are not solid matter..

Molecules are made of atoms, and atoms are atoms in any state of matter.

Zaraza quote- Any proof for this?
POS reply- There's 5000 eyewitnesses for a start, how many more do you want?

And here we go again...